No messin' around, Who's the BEST leader?

[OzzyKP]

Churchill definately

[Dominae]

200 games, random difficulty and maps? Wow...

Mansa Musa.

Financial and Spiritual are always useful, and Skirmishers help mitigate disaster on the higher difficulties.

[Blake]

I was thinking about this, and I'd have to say Alexander, for the "you have no idea what map type / game rules it's going to be".

Aggressive is very good in a knife fight and so are Phalanxes, those things are horse-bane, murder against elephants (in fact Greek have the only good low tech elephant counter) and are still effective against knights (Especially with formation).

Philosophical is extremely good when isolated or with limited ability to expand, it's the most powerful research trait.

Now, some leaders have two traits which align to make the leader extremely good at certain things. Like Tokugawa and Caesar are undisputed kings of Pangaea domination wins, while it's hard to beat Washington on a tiny islands map.

But put Tokugawa on a tiny island with no expansion opportunity (ie OCC until astronomy), or sandwich Washington between Monty and Napoleon, and those leaders will falter terribly.

However it is the nature of CIV that you do always know what kind of environment the game will be, and can thus pick a strong leader for the map, or a good map for the leader. But if that weren't the case, the "Jack of all trades" leaders would be somewhat more popular.

My vote however, went with Caesar, becase in terms of things he can do which no leader should be able to, he pretty much wins, or draws with Capac.

[Qwertqwert]

Have you played a single tile island before? I don't think it's in the random but I did, and I played an entire game with that, all 18 civilizations, all the way to 2050, no one declared war on anybody. In a game like that agressive becomes completly useless trait, and the one that is really useful is financial (obdiviously because that's an automatic +50% gold on every tile) and Expansive (oddly enough) is very useful because it allows you to get a couple more citizens for shield production in by adding health.

[armchairknight]

Louis XIV. Industrial and Creative. Peanut Butter and Chocolate. Builder and Louis. I also like Bismarck and Frederick, but I voted for Louis.

[Blake]

in a game like that agressive becomes completly useless trait, and the one that is really useful is financial (obdiviously because that's an automatic +50% gold on every tile) and Expansive (oddly enough) is very useful because it allows you to get a couple more citizens for shield production in by adding health.

IMHO when you can't expand the most valuable traits are Expansionist and Philosophical. Next comes industrious because you need wonders and Spiritual for a number of reasons - you can precisely micromanage civics, the cheap temples are nice for higher pop. In a class of it's own is financial, it doesn't entirely suck, but it's only equal to about 2-3 settled great people, or representation on 3-4 specialists (remember fin only boosts tile yield, and not any other form of income).
Finally, organized is lame but a cheap lighthouse is a cheap lighthouse, aggressive is pretty useless but not entirely if you're a devoted warmonger (like I am), creative is the absolute worst.


Anyway I'd say I'd much rather be Alexander stuck on an island than Washington stuck between Monty and Genghis; when you need aggressive and a good UU - well you need them. But in an isolated start all you need is philo to perform a powerful slingshot.

[Caligula 37 AD]

I am Caligula, and I am a Spiritual addict.

Being a builder I like to keep my army small. Spiritual lets me draft a decent army whenever Izzy knocks on my door.

For the second trait, I am not yet sure, but it needs to be something that works through the whole game.

I also like to found my own religion early. I could do that with CS-slingshot pre 1.61, but since I moved up a level, and chopping got nerfed, it's become harder. Starting with Mysticism secures my people connection with the gods, at least Monotheism.

This leaves me with Saladin, Montezuma, Asoka and Isabella.

It was a close call, but Asoka won my vote. His Fast Worker is good, Mining could be useful in almost every start, and Organized is favoured by many as the best trait in the game.

Saladin is a close second, and he would be my man for a OCC game. Isabella will be my girl in a quest for cultural domination. Monty should do well when going for domination, but his UU has a rather short shelf life. Plus JCaesar and the Praetorians will do a better job dominating the world. Besides I've never played Monty.

So for 200 general games, all settings random, Asoka is the Man.

- Cal

[Guardian]

I vote for Saladin.

Spiritual and Philosophical work well together. Your cultural dominance is virtually guaranteed, especially if you throw in 2 or 3 religions (with Saladin even 4 or 5 is possible), which can also help your economy if you spread them far and wide enough.

Also, I love the real Saladin - he is actually one of my greatest heroes.

A wise man who's name I don't rememeber at the moment once said that "No man is wise enough, nor good enough, to be trusted with unlimited power."

Well, it seems to me that Saladin could be trusted with a lot.

[LordShiva]

Asoka or Caesar

[CarnalCanaan]

The Age of the Banana has passed.



But I voted for Louix XIV. Never had a bad game with him at the helm. Sure, every-stankin'-thing costs a lot, my cities grind to a halt and my army is humbled by the savage likes of the Mongols and the Aztecs.

But I get EVERY SINGLE WONDER!!!!!

Why conquer 'em when you can make 'em come to you, say I.

"You'll catch more flys with Culture than Military."

[Metaliturtle]

Alexander the great, CGW baby!

[therover]

I used to be into Roosevelt, but I've been playing Ghandi more lately.

Ghandi's Spi/Ind is great for several reasons-

Industrious just makes it easier to build wonders quickly. Unless your stuck with no access to stone and or marble you will be able to build most wonders, which is hugely beneficial to your civ.

Spirituality is the real gem though. It helps you found religions quickly, which, if you build the "cathedral" for each one can approximate having the financial attribute.
You can switch civics with no penalty. If your playing on marathon, it takes two whole turns to switch without it. Even more if your switching multiple civics at a time.

And the fast workers, which are almost like a third leader trait unto themselves.

The down side, of course, is that you have to be Ghandi.

[padillah]

Originally posted by therover
The down side, of course, is that you have to be Ghandi.

Edit the XML and change the picture and the name.

I've switched a couple of my favs around.

Tom P.

[Guardian]

Originally posted by therover

The down side, of course, is that you have to be Ghandi.

...and why exactly would that be a downside?

Gandhi not "cool" enough?

Would you rather be someone like Hitler or Stalin???

[Dis]

Bismarck of the Germans. Elizabeth would be my second choice. But I find their unit less useful. The german panzer does come late, but it's great for that final push if you are still behind, and need to clinch victory.