Has 1.6 changed the growth dynamics?

[Blueparrot1966]

I can't seem to grow a decent civ any more, even dropping the difficulty down to (shamed embarrassment) noble level. I'm well aware of the dynamics of number of cities vs. maintenance costs. I understand about ways to enhance cashflow, like borders agreements, financial civ trait, and courthouses to hold down maintenance costs.

The trouble is, even on noble lvl, you don't have the luxury of sitting on your hands until your tech and economy can support more cities. Even at mediocre levels, the AI snaps up all available terrain post haste and it's time to start over again. The alternative is to grab what you can, crash and burn when your economy goes to pot and you fall behind on tech- and start over again.

I've been playing since Civ I, and I played Civ IV when it was first out, so I'm not just a noob trying to get a handle on it. Sitting down with it again since the latest patch has been a nasty surprise. What's different? What am I missing? Do I just have to beeline to alphabet and currency at the expense of everything else? (Even doing THAT, the maintenance costs crush me long before I can start building courthouses and markets.)

[Blake]

The easy way is just to make sure you have bronze working, pottery and writing by the time "operation crash and burn" is in full swing, it helps if you also have enough cash stockpiled (from ie huts) to reach code of laws or alphabet.

Anyway, as long as you can build cottages and libraries you will recover in time. Cottages increase in commerce and your income will thus become positive. Libraries allow you to assign scientists for a trickle income of beakers plus eventual great Scientists who can be settled, make an academy or lightbulb something useful (sometimes).
Bronze Working is important for chopping and pop rushing, large populations cause higher upkeeps, so if some population points aren't bringing in any beakers, kill them off with slavery to build a library or something.

If the expanding is good I'm definitely inclined to crash and burn my economy then recover. I don't always do that, if the expanding isn't good I stay at high research, get construction, and take cities by conquest.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Bleak
stay at high research, get construction, and take cities by conquest.

Conquering cities gets you gold, too, so you can run at high negatives...

[Son of David]

Use Washington, with financial and organized he is truly awesome. With a good starting location you will be absolutely minted and ahead technologically for the whole game. (At Prince level at least.)

[Blueparrot1966]

Tx for the advice. I'm still at it, trying to modify my usual approach. I really think there's a distinct difference, that things have been tightened up somehow. Several times, I wound up flat on my back, with paltry military abilities, backwards tech, and little or no research ability, and the AI closing in. I think I'm getting the hang of it, we'll see.

[Blake]

Between 1.52 and 1.61 the upkeep actually became more forgiving, at least at emperor difficulty. I can't say for sure that their was no change at noble.

The AI has improved though.

[MasterDave]

Originally posted by Blake
Between 1.52 and 1.61 the upkeep actually became more forgiving, at least at emperor difficulty. I can't say for sure that their was no change at noble.

The AI has improved though.

I noticed this too, Blake, you no longer run a deficit with your first city when running a non-organized civ on Emperor. However, the AI seems far stronger after the patch, and I think I have only beaten Emperor once since patching.