First-time Civ player with questions

[NFIH]

So far I'm enjoying this game quite a bit. I can see how it can become so addicting. I'm finding it deep and complex--though not always because it's inherently deep and complex but because some game ideas, functions, etc., are not explained well enough either by the tutorial or the manual. Hence my first batch of questions:

1. How do improved resources work in terms of giving health (for example) to connected cities? I had a city with two fish resources but it was giving only +1 health. Should it not be +2?

2. Also, once I raised the city's health by +2 from resources, my connected capital city remained at +1 health. Should it not go to +2 as well?

3. What is represented by that percentage number I see above the city name on the main screen (e.g. +20%, +40%, etc.)?

4. I'm still not exactly sure how city radius vs cultural borders work in terms of improving/getting access to resources. Does the "fat cross" actually grow or not? If it does grow, how come I can't see it on the city management screen (or the main screen, for that matter) so I can determine where to put things, etc.?

4 (a). If there is a resource like wheat outside of my cultural borders, can I still build a road to it and get the benefits, or does it have to be inside my cultural borders? Or does it have to be inside the city radius?

5. Is there a build option to "build nothing" (there have been times where I wanted to do that)?

6. I also have Civ II but never got around to playing it until recently. But then I broke and got Civ IV after playing the demo. I was having fun with Civ II for the very short time I started to fool around with it. In your opinion, how does Civ II rank? Will I have just as much fun with it as Civ IV or should I just go ahead and uninstall the older version (I'm concerned that lack of enhancements in Civ II will make it more tedious to play and Civ IV is already complex enough without added work)?

Thanks!

[Kuciwalker]

1. How do improved resources work in terms of giving health (for example) to connected cities? I had a city with two fish resources but it was giving only +1 health. Should it not be +2?

Extra of a resource don't help you at all. If you have 1 fish, every city connected to the fish gets +1 health. If you have 15 fish, they still get +1 health. However, you can trade the extra fish away. Also, if you have fish and crabs, you get +2 health. Fish and crabs and clams, +3.

If you look in the upper right corner of the city screen, it shows the breakdown of resources in the city.

3. What is represented by that percentage number I see above the city name on the main screen (e.g. +20%, +40%, etc.)?

That's the defense bonus from the city's culture. The number can be bombarded down by Catapults, Cannon, Artillery and Bombers.

4. I'm still not exactly sure how city radius vs cultural borders work in terms of improving/getting access to resources. Does the "fat cross" actually grow or not? If it does grow, how come I can't see it on the city management screen (or the main screen, for that matter) so I can determine where to put things, etc.?

You can only exploit resources within your cultural borders. The "fat cross" does grow, but the city can still only have citizens working within the normal 20-tile fat cross. However, if you have a gold resource 3 tiles outside a city but inside your culture borders, and you mine it and road it to the city, you still get the gold resource (and the +1 happy face).

4 (a). If there is a resource like wheat outside of my cultural borders, can I still build a road to it and get the benefits, or does it have to be inside my cultural borders? Or does it have to be inside the city radius?

See above.

5. I also have Civ II but never got around to playing it until recently. But then I broke and got Civ IV after playing the demo. I was having fun with Civ II for the very short time I started to fool around with it. In your opinion, how does Civ II rank? Will I have just as much fun with it as Civ IV or should I just go ahead and uninstall the older version (I'm concerned that lack of enhancements in Civ II will make it more tedious to play and Civ IV is already complex enough without added work)?

Civ 2 is a great game, but you'll have more fun with Civ 4 IMO, especially if you're new.

[JackRudd]

Re: First-time Civ player with questions

Originally posted by NFIH
5. Is there a build option to "build nothing" (there have been times where I wanted to do that)?

There's no build option to do that - and why would you want to, anyway? I don't think I ever run out of city improvements before discovering at least one of Alphabet, Music and Currency.

[rjmatsleepers]

Re: First-time Civ player with questions

Originally posted by NFIH

2. Also, once I raised the city's health by +2 from resources, my connected capital city remained at +1 health. Should it not go to +2 as well?

The health effects from resources will be the same in your capital and any connected city. The implications may be different because of something affecting health within the "fat cross (for example, forests or jungle) or buildings in the city (for example an aqueduct). It could be that one of your cities had something that gave an extra health effect. For example a harbour increases the health effect of fish from +1 to +2, but only in the city where it is built.

Originally posted by NFIH
5. Is there a build option to "build nothing" (there have been times where I wanted to do that)?

There is no option to build nothing, although with the appropriate technolgy you can convert production into wealth, research or culture. Normally there is no benefit in building nothing. Building a wonder or a building can't actually do any harm. You sometimes need to wait a turn before discovering a tech that will allow you to build something you want. In that case you either spend a turn producing wealth, research or culture or simply put a few shields into some unit and then switch.

Originally posted by NFIH
6. I also have Civ II but never got around to playing it until recently. But then I broke and got Civ IV after playing the demo. I was having fun with Civ II for the very short time I started to fool around with it. In your opinion, how does Civ II rank? Will I have just as much fun with it as Civ IV or should I just go ahead and uninstall the older version (I'm concerned that lack of enhancements in Civ II will make it more tedious to play and Civ IV is already complex enough without added work)?

Thanks!

In my opinion Civ II is a classic and will be played and enjoyed for many years yet. Civ IV has a number of good aspects, but also some disadvantages. I suspect you will be tired of Civ IV before Civ II. Not everyone will agree with me.

RJM at Sleeper's

[SandMonkey]

For CivII vs. CivIV:

I played CivII on and off (more on!) from 1997 until probably last year. I liked it more than CivIII, and there are still many reasons why I probably like it more than CivIV. For example:

• CivII isn't a resource hog. It's quick to laod and quick to close, which I can't say for CivIV (at least for me).
• CivII tends to be a bit simpler in many aspects of the game. Settlers do the work for both workers and settlers. On the same note, when looking at terrain improvements, in civ2 you have 2 options: irrigate (and farm) or mine. There is rarely a time when you're torn over which to build.
• War is a lot "easier" in civII since you don't need to take mixed units into account for the most part. In general you can just build the most powerful unit you have and clobber your AI opponent.

I think a lot of people might call these aspects deficiencies as opposed to benefits, but it's really personal preference. I think playing CivII for a little while and then switching back to CivIV could give you a better appreciation for many of the finer points of CivIV.

[NFIH]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

Extra of a resource don't help you at all. If you have 1 fish, every city connected to the fish gets +1 health. If you have 15 fish, they still get +1 health. However, you can trade the extra fish away. Also, if you have fish and crabs, you get +2 health. Fish and crabs and clams, +3.

Ah, I get it now.

That's the defense bonus from the city's culture. The number can be bombarded down by Catapults, Cannon, Artillery and Bombers.

OK.

You can only exploit resources within your cultural borders. The "fat cross" does grow, but the city can still only have citizens working within the normal 20-tile fat cross. However, if you have a gold resource 3 tiles outside a city but inside your culture borders, and you mine it and road it to the city, you still get the gold resource (and the +1 happy face).

Wait a sec--if the fat cross does grow, and the fat cross also represents the area that can be worked, doesn't that mean the 20-tile area that can be worked also grows to 30, 40, etc.?

[NFIH]

Re: Re: First-time Civ player with questions

Originally posted by JackRudd

There's no build option to do that - and why would you want to, anyway? I don't think I ever run out of city improvements before discovering at least one of Alphabet, Music and Currency.

I happen to be in a situation where I want to do that. I've built just about everything that is currently available to me in a given city. (I could buid units, but I don't want to because I don't need them and as I understand it they cost something to maintain/support.)

There is one building I COULD build--the forge--but I don't want to build it because it creates 1 green face and I can't afford that right now. So that's why I wanted to build "nothing"--just temporarily.

[NFIH]

Re: Re: First-time Civ player with questions

Originally posted by rjmatsleepers

The health effects from resources will be the same in your capital and any connected city. The implications may be different because of something affecting health within the "fat cross (for example, forests or jungle) or buildings in the city (for example an aqueduct). It could be that one of your cities had something that gave an extra health effect. For example a harbour increases the health effect of fish from +1 to +2, but only in the city where it is built.

Yep, I think that's it--I was building harbours in all my coastal cities and this city was the one with the fish.

There is no option to build nothing, although with the appropriate technolgy you can convert production into wealth, research or culture. Normally there is no benefit in building nothing. Building a wonder or a building can't actually do any harm. You sometimes need to wait a turn before discovering a tech that will allow you to build something you want. In that case you either spend a turn producing wealth, research or culture or simply put a few shields into some unit and then switch.

Yeah, I do now have the option to build wealth, etc., so I'll be doing that. (But I didn't have that option until recently.)



In my opinion Civ II is a classic and will be played and enjoyed for many years yet. Civ IV has a number of good aspects, but also some disadvantages. I suspect you will be tired of Civ IV before Civ II. Not everyone will agree with me.

RJM at Sleeper's [/QUOTE]

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by NFIH
Wait a sec--if the fat cross does grow, and the fat cross also represents the area that can be worked, doesn't that mean the 20-tile area that can be worked also grows to 30, 40, etc.?

I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. There are two different things we're talking about.

The first is the cultural border. It's the pretty colored line on the map. Any resource inside of this can be used by your civlization if you put a mine (or farm or plantation or oil well) on it and connect it to your road network.

The second is the "fat cross" of the city. Each population point in the city can work one tile inside the fat cross that's also inside your cultural borders (this is important if the border haven't expanded or your city is close to an enemy city). This cross is always the same and never expands.

[Caligula 37 AD]

There are ways of "building nothing", but as JackRudd and RJM states it's (almost) never beneficial.
My advise is: don’t use the technique described below.

However, while it is (almost) never beneficial (as stated), what you could do is pre-build an item. In your case the forge, or a unit. Order the city to build the forge (or unit) but make sure to delete it from the build queue before it is completed. The hammers put in to building the forge will be stored, but it will not be built until you order it again. If then you still want to "build nothing" you must pre-build a unit the same way (don't use the palace option for this in case you forget to cancel it and your capital will be moved to an unwanted location).

Later when you want the forge or the unit built, their building times will be short. If you forget to cancel the unwanted unit, you can always just delete it (or better delete another older obsolete one). However if the forge is accidentally built, there is no way of getting rid of it.

In most cases however it is better to build the forge in the first place. Yes it gives you a green face and that will never go away. But it can be countered by a health resource, a granary, aqueduct or any number of means. Unless the city goes into starvation, a green face is not a big deal. And as long as your green faces are fewer than the white/red health icons besides the food counter, the green faces have no effect at all.

If this issue of “nothing to build” happens frequently, it is a sign that you need to increase your science output. You are building and working cottages, no?

To the CIV2 vs CIV4 issue:
CIV2 was brilliant when it came out, and competition were less harsh. CIV4 is no doubt better when comparing the two, but compared to the contemporary games CIV2 was a lone star.

CIV4 shines too, but the skies are now brighter and one star is harder to spot. I predict CIV4 will have shorter shelf-life just because the competition is harder.
Should you play CIV2? Oh yes. It is still a good game.
Will it improve your CIV4 skills? No, probable not.

- Cal

[Raion]

In a sense in Civ IV you can build nothing. It is at the bottom of the build screen on the main map popup build screen, when you get the appropriate tech, and that is either --- Wealth, Research, or whatever the other one will be when you get to the tech that gives you those options, and it is about the same time that you will get forge, unless you are teching up only one side or something, which is nothing I ever do, since I need techs from both sides, like Writing, Mathematics, and Iron Working, or Optics, or Banks. But, a city can be building -- Wealth, or Research, I know for sure. May be a third one, maybe not.

[Raion]

Oh, maybe it could be adding to Culture, or something like that, may be, or may be not. Not sure about that.
Once you get Drama or something like that, then you get a percentage slider like you had with Science and Taxes.

[Bkeela]

I found Civ II boring. I had already milked Civ 1 for everything it was worth, so when I got a chance to play Civ II, I soon lost interest. Civ III didn't interest me either, but Civ IV - my favourite game ever.

[Vinnnch]

[SIZE=1]
Extra of a resource don't help you at all. If you have 1 fish, every city connected to the fish gets +1 health. If you have 15 fish, they still get +1 health. However, you can trade the extra fish away. Also, if you have fish and crabs, you get +2 health. Fish and crabs and clams, +3.

Reading this, a question comes to my mind : When trading resources, do you only trade resources that you have in multiple numbers (eg never trading my first fish, my first rice, my first cow...) ?
Or is the benefit of trading EACH resource more valuable than keeping it for your own use ?

[Thedrin]

@Vinnnch:

You can trade a resource if you only have one of it. Sometimes it can be beneficial to trade away a resource that you only have one of.

A good example would be in the begining of a game. If you want good relations with a neighbour and have one fish while they have two clams then trade your one fish for one of their two clams. Result: You still have one health resource but now they have two and will have better relations with you.