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Dietary Restrictions and other non-ofensive religious differences

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  • #31
    I think the role of religion is just right in the game the way it is. Apart from worrying about offending people, the history of every religion shows that there is so much variation to the expression of a given religion, that it would be hard to stick to a given definition of its benefits or penalties, unless we went with the most conservative and orthodox interpretation.

    As for dietary penalties, we assume that every adherent of a religion always follows the rules. Plus, the strictness of what people can and cannot do changes with the times. Imagine if the Catholic Church still excommunicated everyone who charged interest on loans! And as an aside, not eating something doesn't necessarily mean it's a food penalty: medieval Hindus probably got more caloric output from live cows in terms of milk, agricultural labor and fertilizer than Europeans did or do by eating them. And the Buddha allowed the eating of meat by his followers when received as alms.

    Sectarian violence? It's possible, but not necessary in multi-religion societies. Look at the lack of substantial clashes between Buddhism and Shinto in Japan. Or, a Chinese person of the Tang era might have followed the dictates of Confucius, contemplated the Dao, and arranged for funeral rites at a Buddhist temple.

    Most of the time, in history, when governments have promoted state religions, they have enforced all the rituals and petty rules of the religion but ignored the spirit of it. Under the officially Catholic Louis XIV, the sale and consumption of meat was forbidden during Lent, but that didn't keep him from having mistresses or waging senseless wars. The only exception to this might be Asoka, who may have actually tried to run his government according to Buddhism.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Adagio


      I guess you missed the part where I was talking about an idea, that I would like to see in the game... not what was in the game
      Ah, my bad.
      "Build Ports when possible. A port gives you extra resources, as well as an extra tile for a unit to stand on." - Infogrames

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      • #33
        One thing that bothers me though, is that Islam usually plays a virtually minimal role in the game.

        There should be some kind of forced conversion option for all religions, and possibly extra missionaries for Islam and Christianity, since they are later. The two biggest religions in the world converted most of their followers at sword point, it's just a simple fact.

        Also, Buddhist missionaries should never fail in spreading Buddhism for the simple fact that (as someone previously mentioned), Buddhist monks probably know martials arts, and if a monk ever came to my town and whipped out some kung fu, I can't imagine the whole town not converting just based on how awesome kung fu is. (that and I guess, how there is actual logic involved in Buddhism =P .... 0=)
        May it come that all the Radiances will be known as ones own radiances

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        • #34
          Having christianity as your state religion and an emancipated government slowly turns what ever leader you have into Bush.

          Hey, someone had to make a Bush joke, its a social obligation.

          But I know what our (Christian) Unique unit would be. A missionary that not only spread its religion, but replaced all the other ones in the city, and destroyed all their building.

          Or Jesus. He could go around raising your units after battle.

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          • #35
            I was actually just reading an news article about China and the Vatican and how they aren't getting along. Probably too micro, but how awesome would it be for some religions to pop up a religious figure and manipulate the collective psyche of the followers, so even if you had the holy city, if you did something that the holy figure figure did not like, it could start causing unhappiness, and maybe some military action on your part. It could be another persona to have negotiations with.

            It could potentially make diplomacy and military action a lot of fun if you had to protect or attack a holy city (possibly covertly... eg Soviets et el Papa) to shut up a holy figure, even if you were friendly with the civ harboring the figure. Make any sense? Could make religion a bit more dynamic.
            May it come that all the Radiances will be known as ones own radiances

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            • #36
              Originally posted by gradea
              Having christianity as your state religion and an emancipated government slowly turns what ever leader you have into Bush.

              Hey, someone had to make a Bush joke, its a social obligation.

              But I know what our (Christian) Unique unit would be. A missionary that not only spread its religion, but replaced all the other ones in the city, and destroyed all their building.

              Or Jesus. He could go around raising your units after battle.
              I found that you can add the missionary ability to any unit, I'm thinking about modding it in to the Conquistador. It would certainly work well with Isabella's persona - after conquering a city they wouldn't have to wait for missionaries to get there to spread their religion.

              Actually, I got all kinds of fun ideas from looking around in the XML for units. I'm also considering giving missionaries the ability to increase the culture of a city by a relatively small amount to make them more useful for civs that don't have open borders - don't have a Great Artist? Build 40 missionaries and get the same effect.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by iapetus556
                Heck, people have even killed each other over the significance of a lost shoe, even while their Messiah appealed for calm
                That's because they didn't understand the sign! It means we should all walk with one right shoe!

                One Right Shoe!

                Tom P.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Badtz Maru
                  Actually, I got all kinds of fun ideas from looking around in the XML for units. I'm also considering giving missionaries the ability to increase the culture of a city by a relatively small amount to make them more useful for civs that don't have open borders - don't have a Great Artist? Build 40 missionaries and get the same effect.
                  I moded my missionaries to be able to cross non-Open Borders. This way I can actively spread my religion to civs I'm not AT WAR with but don't want Open Borders (I play non-Open Borders most of the time).

                  Tom P.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by VonSharma
                    One thing that bothers me though, is that Islam usually plays a virtually minimal role in the game.


                    The reason being that it is simply a 'last chance' for a civ to get its own religion if it hasn't got one of the other six already.

                    This is a necessary consequence of all religions being 'the same'. They all serve identical functions and exist in different flavours simply as different 'options' or choices or opportunities depending on how you view different decision-making problems in CIV. Having your own religion serves the function of giving you espionage on other civs and being able to build a holy shrine to collect tithes from other nations.

                    Historical simulation is for scenarios.

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