blatant AI faux pas?

[eluciv]

Just me, or do you notice how many times the AI settles their cities with a one-square tile space from the coast? I see about 9 of these types of cities to every 1 the AI settles on the coast. Continental maps, Pangea, Terra, etc.

What in the AI algorithm makes them think that it's of benefit to settle so that several workable tiles are on the coast, but the city isn't and thus cannot exploit coastal improvements? It's got to be a huge factor in why it's so easy to out-GNP the AI - not to mention that unless you're on Archipelago-type maps that seemingly force the computer to settle coastal, the AI navy is a complete nonfactor.

[Jaybe]

Have you noticed (if you are a warmonger) how easy it is to invade a coastal city? They probably build away from the coast as a defensive measure.

It's okay to easily out-GNP the AI, because they get substantial cost reductions to compensate (for everything other than research, at any level above the easiest).

I should probably play an "Always Peace" game and see if they will build more coastal cities that way.

And no, it isn't just you that noticed all the non-coastals. I also was initially distressed at seeing it.

[Tattila the Hun]

I do think, that any city, with even one coastal tile on the fat x, should be able to build harbors and the likes. Even ships, but limit that to after they have build the drydock. Logic would dictate, that a city within a pissing distance of the coast would sprawl towards it, and build a "suburban" harbor there, connecting it to the trade network.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Tattila the Hun
I do think, that any city, with even one coastal tile on the fat x, should be able to build harbors and the likes. Even ships, but limit that to after they have build the drydock. Logic would dictate, that a city within a pissing distance of the coast would sprawl towards it, and build a "suburban" harbor there, connecting it to the trade network.

One tile is several hundred km... Logic would dictate that that would have to be one hell of a piss

[AoA]

Another reason to allow canals in the game.

[Silver14]

For some reason I doubt there is any logic behind where the AI places their cities on the coast or inland. It probably has more to do with land availability and the resources of the placement. The magic all knowing blue circle is the driving force for the AI, so watch where it suggests - 1 square inland or on the coast?...

[guyfencin]

I don't think the AI's bias against coastal cities hurts it more than it helps, because of the defensive disadvantage of coastal cities mentioned above. Also, judging by what I've seen on archipelago maps with large islands, I'd bet the bias is mostly a result of an acceptable city site inland being closer to the Settler than one on a coast. It might be an unintended effect rather than a deliberate bias.

The really painful things I've noticed stem from its woeful lack of warfighting intelligence. An example:
An AI position declares war on its turn and immediately moves a fleet loaded with troops adjacent to a player city on a small (2 square) island. The AI then unloads its troops onto the hill adjacent to the city, rather than making an amphibious attack, despite the fact that the invading troops are 4 Cavalry and 5 Grenadiers vs. a lone Warrior(!) defending. On the player turn, the Warrior is upgraded to a Machinegun which then succeeds in fending off the entire attacking force. Oh yeah, the city had 60% defense due to culture, and of course the AI did not bombard those defenses until _after_ its ground units had finished committing suicide.

Now, I've got a clue or two just how difficult it is to create an effective AI for the sort of combat you have in this game, I'm not expecting strategic or tactical brilliance. But when an inexpensive victory is certain (4 attackers worth 15+ and 5 more worth 12+ vs. a defender worth 5.2 after all adjustments) and the prize is the immediate capture or destruction of a substantial (pop:12) city, there really should be no question at all about overriding any bias against amphibious assault. A bird in the hand and all that, don't you think?

P.S. There is also the matter of the brilliance of choices like building Frigates rather than Riflemen in a besieged city whose only adjacent sea square is occupied by an enemy Destroyer accompanied by 2 Transports.

[marvinkosh]

The main disadvantage of settling one square from the coast is that you have a whole bunch of coastal tiles which will not receive the bonus which a lighthouse grants. Unless the alternative is desert tiles with no resources, avoid having coast or sea tiles in a city that won't be able to work them at full potential.

[Yaga]

Originally posted by LordShiva

One tile is several hundred km... Logic would dictate that that would have to be one hell of a piss

One possibility is that just as a city can build Watermill improvements along adjacent tiles, so too should they be able to build "dry dock" or "harbor" improvements allowing for the construction of ships on otherwise landlocked cities.

I have noticed, more to the original point of the thread, that the blue circle suggestions the computer gives rarely match up with my idea of a good place to put a city.

[AoA]

Often it seems that the blue circles are great choices considering that the AI knows where more modern resources will appear.

[Willem]

Originally posted by AoA
Often it seems that the blue circles are great choices considering that the AI knows where more modern resources will appear.

No they don't. That advantage was removed with Civ 4.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Willem
No they don't. That advantage was removed with Civ 4.

Or so they claim...

[Bkeela]

I don't see what the big deal is. I often sacrifice ocean access in order to secure a city with two or more awkwardly placed resource squares. 1 - 3 squares of ocean without a lighthouse is worthwhile trade if you are gaining copper or iron while still being in touch with a couple of other juicy resources - especially in the early game when things are tight.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Jaybe
Have you noticed (if you are a warmonger) how easy it is to invade a coastal city? They probably build away from the coast as a defensive measure.

Building one tile away isn't all that much of a defense, considering that the coast gives you +10%.

[Paddy]

Originally posted by AoA
Another reason to allow canals in the game.

yeah they would be cool...









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