everything increased in Civ IV , but military ??

[Gunter]

I have been a Civ fan since ages and I always loved the core part of this game , using military.

I havn't played Civ IV yet.


My question is : I see that everything has been greatly increased in terms of quantity, I mean wonders , city buildings , even religions have been added carrying lot of stuff etc... but I noticed that unit have been let's say deacreased

I would have expected several new navy units for example and with my extreme disappointing nuke subs have been removed

Helos now can't even cross mountains so physics rules have been reinvented from scratch to pleasure Doom style playing........

I would have expected more terrain units, like city buildings, I see everything is the same of Civ III,even much more less.

Then I dislike the cartoon graphic the SID has never used in his masterpieces like Railroad Tycoon etc.....maybe marketing rules to pleasure kids or what I call SSP --> Sunday Strategical Players

Call me old dirty man but I would have expected a more flexible and customizable game ........and even the editor have been burned in favor of standard minds thoughts.

I am sad, vary sad , having been an hard core Sid fan since Gunship etc...

Gunter

[kittenOFchaos]

Until you play it are you really fit to comment?

You forget the expansion of the military aspect that promotions provide, more than makes up for the reduced number of units. Add to that there is far less sleaziness a la Civ3 of bombardment without retribution.

Add to that if you were a hardcore fan, you'd have played Civ4 and if you're still harping for Civ2...I find it hard to imagine going back to such a simplistic and downright easy military game.

[ChaotikVisions]

I thought they had more units for the early ages, not less. At least it feels that way with the need to use combined arms. But as for the late game it is a bit light, I expect to see several new modern era units in the expansion.

Helos being unable to cross mountains is a bit odd, but not totally unrealistic. Weather conditions can get pretty bad on mountains and more then one helicopter has gone down in them. Once SDK comes out we'll be able to change it though. (This is due to Firaxis making the impassable flag hardcoded for mountains for some reason)

Everything the same as Civ3? Did you just look at one preview or something? Theres definite changes especially with religion thrown in the mix and wonders vary greatly now.

The graphics are just a matter of style, but they're no more cartoonish then any of the other Civs. If you didn't like how they looked you're not going to like how Civ4 looks. As for SSP, thats fairly insulting and a bad label in itself considering Civ4 is the most difficult Civ of the series.

I'm not quite sure what the editor being burned in favor of standard minds thoughts means... But the game is quite moddable as it stands. Much of the data is XML or can be altered through Python. If that wasn't enough even more of the game(including the AI) will soon be open for modification with the SDK.

To summarize, the game is great with many new features and you really should double check wherever you're getting that info from.

You say you're mainly a military player, and thats one of the areas Civ excells in. The paper-rock-scissors setup as well as promotions means a unit is no longer just looked at for the base value of its strength. Combined arms and artillery support are emphasized giving a much better feel to warfare.

[Dis]

It's safe to say a lot of these units will be added with expansions. It kind of sucks, because it would be nice to have them now and not pay for them. But they have to put something in the expansion to justify the need to buy it. They can't just put new wonders and buildings. They need new units as well.

[Adagio]

Originally posted by Gunter
Call me old dirty man but I would have expected a more flexible and customizable game ........and even the editor have been burned in favor of standard minds thoughts.

I see that you have no idea how flexible the game is at the moment, not to mention how flexible the game will be when they release the SDK... I can't wait to see what mods we'll see, when it gets released

[mike2h]

Originally posted by Adagio


I see that you have no idea how flexible the game is at the moment, not to mention how flexible the game will be when they release the SDK... I can't wait to see what mods we'll see, when it gets released

i agree! i think this is the best civ yet & it looks like the add-on will make it even better.
wished they would release the patch though

[Gunter]

I played some turns the demo and , beside the graphic , I didn't find anything new but dozens of new resources, buildings etc...

Of course the game have been washed from boring aspects , now everything is handly , semi-automatic and easy to manage and control .........pretty quick to take care of this and that , even faster in terms of climbing the tech tree..........but sorry to say that IMO it has also lost the " atmosphere " of previous version and this is not a nostalgic consideration.

You mentioned SDK, ( waited since months and it is neither on the close orizon.. ) but you know that such a tool won't implement the possibility to add units, AI will never learn how to use them.

I simply tell that they turned hard from the past , maybe Civ V will be without units at all,it will be only a very good world simulator for kiddie in their science room lesson of friday late noon.

Gunter


P.S. : could you please tell me why everything has been doubled in terms of quantity and units has been cutted or left the same beside some patethic old ages marketing units ?

I want :
10 modern navy units
10 more air units
10 more terrain modern units
5 level of spies
5 new missiles
5 levels of satellites
promotions simplified,everyone every time choose always the same , boring and predictable

and fantasy , creativity , immagination of old SID , not marketing appealing muppets show

[Dis]

tis not a wargame.

[Gunter]

Originally posted by Dis
tis not a wargame.

Exactly ! You told that !

CIV IV has became a world simulator ala SIMS ( terrifying !!! )

So why don't remove every unit in favour of Lunaparks and Ipod wonders ? ( maybe Apple will contribute to finance the next Expansion Pack )

Gunter


P.S. please note in real life I am a pacifist

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Adagio
I see that you have no idea how flexible the game is at the moment, not to mention how flexible the game will be when they release the SDK... I can't wait to see what mods we'll see, when it gets released

I'm beginning to think that this "SDK" is nothing more than a cruel joke meant to torture us, and that tomorrow, we're going to see a link on the civ4 website that says "Download SDK here," which on clicking will bring up a big, red, flashing "APRIL FOOLS!!!111!!!eleven!!"

[ChaotikVisions]

The SDK is supposed to be with the patch which also shouldn't be delayed much longer. As for adding new units you can do it already. I did it myself with simple XML edting only like a week after I had the game. For right now the units will have to use an existing AI profile but for the most parts these profiles are general things like defense/attack/etc... Once the SDK is out you should be able to modify them considering the AI itself will be open to modification.

As for promotions being the same thing every time I certainly don't do that in my games. While some are generally effective all the time like the Combat promotions, others are far more useful in the long run if you need to counter a specific type of unit or increase your own units versatility.

I do agree more units would be nice, but I don't think 10 modern navy units are needed. I can only think of 6 or 7 max and thats stretching it. Air units are even less at like five. Land units could use some more but again ten really isn't needed. Spies, missiles, and satellites would be nice but have the potentional to be unbalancing.

Its hard to implement the ability to strike from afar that isn't. Nukes mainly work because of the negative side effects introduced with their use, and also because they're a bit weak in Civ4. Anyway, it sounds like you just don't want to like the game to begin with. Its your choice naturally, but the game isn't anywhere as limited as you seem to think it is. I hope the info i've provided helps, and if not theres plenty of other sources of info out there to check.

[kittenOFchaos]

Originally posted by Gunter


Exactly ! You told that !

CIV IV has became a world simulator ala SIMS ( terrifying !!! )

So why don't remove every unit in favour of Lunaparks and Ipod wonders ? ( maybe Apple will contribute to finance the next Expansion Pack )

Gunter


P.S. please note in real life I am a pacifist

[Willem]

Originally posted by Gunter
I played some turns the demo and , beside the graphic , I didn't find anything new but dozens of new resources, buildings etc...

Of course the game have been washed from boring aspects , now everything is handly , semi-automatic and easy to manage and control .........pretty quick to take care of this and that , even faster in terms of climbing the tech tree..........but sorry to say that IMO it has also lost the " atmosphere " of previous version and this is not a nostalgic consideration.

You're not going to learn very much about the game just playing some turns of the demo. You should withhold your judgements until you've played through a few full games. Unless of course your only intention is to criticize.

You mentioned SDK, ( waited since months and it is neither on the close orizon.. ) but you know that such a tool won't implement the possibility to add units, AI will never learn how to use them.

Obviously you don't know what the the SDK is. It will include the AI subroutines, so if it doesn't know how to use an added unit, it can be adjusted until it does.

P.S. : could you please tell me why everything has been doubled in terms of quantity and units has been cutted or left the same beside some patethic old ages marketing units ?

With the promotion system, you don't need tons of different units. In a sense, two of the same units with different promotions will become two unique units, since their combat roles will be vastly different from each other. They'll just look alike.

I want :
10 modern navy units
10 more air units
10 more terrain modern units
5 level of spies
5 new missiles
5 levels of satellites

Overkill and totally unnecessary.

promotions simplified,everyone every time choose always the same , boring and predictable

And how would you know what people select for promotions? You haven't even played a game through so you don't even know what they are. You're just making a blanket statement without having any proof to back it up.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by ChaotikVisions
Helos being unable to cross mountains is a bit odd, but not totally unrealistic. Weather conditions can get pretty bad on mountains and more then one helicopter has gone down in them. Once SDK comes out we'll be able to change it though. (This is due to Firaxis making the impassable flag hardcoded for mountains for some reason)

Helos are not classified as air units in the game, that's why they can't cross peaks.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Gunter
P.S. : could you please tell me why everything has been doubled in terms of quantity and units has been cutted or left the same beside some patethic old ages marketing units ?

What are you on?

They removed the spy (restricted it massively, to be more precise), the diplomat, the camel (bah), and the engieer, for starters.