How long before a culturally overwhelmed city finally caves?

[phooey73]

Barbarian city Alemanni was captured by the Greeks very early in the game. I built cities very close by it, built wonders and monasteries, etc in the cities, and I have completely overwhelmed it culturally.

There was also another city on his border that was totally overwhelmed. No squares inside the city border. That city did end up revolting when its percentage of Greeks dropped to about 42%

But Alemanni is down to 35% Greek, has no squares inside its border BUT it has one square of water that it can't work because its a corner just outside its radius. Not sure if that matters.

Alexander has about 10 units to garrison tiny size-1 starving pathetic Alemanni. It did revolt once... civil disorder for 3 turns, but somehow he quelled the rebellion on the last turn and the city has stayed greek.

The other city when it coverted to me, I had the option to disband it and I did, and built a new one a little closer to the ocean.

I want to get rid of Alemanni too, but its not even mine yet!

I'm playing on Noble, still the same game that I've been posting about, playing Americans on a Huge Archipelago. Its about 1300 AD, I have 65 cities.

Alemanni has had no city radius for at least 200 years.

Any ideas as to when it will finally cave? Was it some sort of bug that Alexander was somehow able to stop the secession on the last turn?

[Willem]

Originally posted by phooey73
Was it some sort of bug that Alexander was somehow able to stop the secession on the last turn?

No, it was the number of troops he has stationed in the city. That's what will determine how long it will take to flip. If you can get them out, it won't take long at all.

[phooey73]

But, but, but... he's my best buddy, and has the second biggest military after me (he has about 60% of the military I have to defend about 15% of the territory). I'm not going to be declaring war on him!

Yes, I know he's an AI and a psychopathic one at that. But we are way into "friendly" territory, and if I were to pick a conquest, it'd definitely be Isabella, and if I finished her off, then Montezuma.

Alemanni does not really present a problem except that I am not able to use those 12 or so squares of territory.

Its just annoying. Give it up Alexander, its 65% mine! Don't you need those units to fight that War I got you into with Isabella?

The question is... can he hold it indefinitely like that? What's the odds of a revolt each turn? Do they increase as the Greek percentage falls to 30%... 20%.... 10% ? Will he need to station 40 military units there to prevent it?

[johnmcd]

I have had cities down to 1% their owner 99% me and they've not flipped. Armies are very important in maintaing ownership.

[phooey73]

Wow. Guess I'm in for a very long wait, perhaps forever. That's exactly the sort of information I was looking for. The city has enough Greek culture to expand at least once beyond its useable radius, so it will probably not be down to 1% until the near the end of the game.

You know, I have open borders with Alex. I could move my own military inside there. Would that help?

[Solver]

At some point, the city has a revolt and you get a message. When a second revolt happens, the city flips to you.

If it's going to flip, though, when exactly is a bit random.

[padillah]

You are eventually going to have to come to grips with how much that city bothers you.

If it bugs you enough, get Alexandar to declare war on a couple of different AI's and then, when he's weak, SQUASH HIM LIKE A BUG!!!

Tom P.

[phooey73]

There has already been ONE revolt, but Alex managed to quash it before the city flipped.

If what Solver says is true, the next revolt will cause the city to flip regardless. But the one time the city revolted, there were only about 4 units protecting it, and now there are 10 or so.

I still wonder about the formula. If a city can hold out at 1% then the percentage probably doesn't have much to do with the chances of a revolt.... its either on or off, and the sole factor is the mitigating military presence.

[Willem]

Originally posted by phooey73
You know, I have open borders with Alex. I could move my own military inside there. Would that help?

No, troops have no direct effect over culture, they just prevent citizens of their own nationality from revolting and flipping to another civ.

[Nacht]

Re: How long before a culturally overwhelmed city finally caves?

Originally posted by phooey73
Its about 1300 AD, I have 65 cities.

And you're still worrying about Alemanni

I'd say, go up a difficulty level and reconsider your priorities

[phooey73]

Re: Re: How long before a culturally overwhelmed city finally caves?

Originally posted by Nacht


And you're still worrying about Alemanni

I'd say, go up a difficulty level and reconsider your priorities

Yeah, I'm pretty much kicking butt in this particular game on Noble. I have twice the score of highest AI. And my turn pace is painstakingly slow. I'm running Mercantilism and Representation, so every city generates three beakers for every specialist, and I've got all other research turned off for a while so that I won't get Scentific Method too soon. And with all that cash, I should be able to upgrade all my old units to Riflemen once I have the tech.

A normal person would probably just speed through, win, and start a new game (of the same or higher difficulty), but I'm not a normal person. I really like to wallow in my good fortune. Not that long ago (in the game) I was at war with both Alex and Monty, and I even lost a city temporarily. Alex totally caught me off guard because he had been quite pleased with me. I know Monty put him up to it. Now, I've kept both of them busy at war with Isabella. But I remember those dark scary days too well, and I need some good times...

After this game, I will probably keep playing on Noble. I don't feel like giving the AI an advantage.

[johnmcd]

All that happens when you go up a level is that the AI gets an advantage in productivity to offset your advantage in strategy. It balances things.

[Urban Ranger]

I have seen an enemy city with 0% original owner influence (i.e. 100% my influence) that refused to flip for a very long time.

[Swiss Pauli]

I played on once after a win to see how late game flipping went (and also to see how long it would take Cyrus to crush Monty).

I had 90-100% culture blaring out with Eiffel Tower and all manner of multipliers, and, despite turning to 16 pop cities into 1 pop backwaters, I only got one poorly garrisoned city to switch in 40 turns.

[Tattila the Hun]

I was under the impression, that 10 units effectively prevent flipping...

BTW, if a city revolts in 1300 AD, and would revolt again in, say, 1900 AD, would that count as the second revolt towards the flip.

Did you know, you can flip *everything*? Even enemy capital can flip if you get enough culture towards it... Though, I've only do this in worldbuilder, with few dozen great artists...