Permanent Alliances

[Smellycowsquid]

Just a thought, can you have more than one civ in an alliance?

[greenday_234]

nope
however, it can get sticky because the AI's can join other AIs

[Willem]

It could get interesting with the upcoming vassal states. Imagine a permanent alliance with each member having a vassal state or two under their control. We should definitely see some interesting power blocs in action.

[jdchambe]

I know I'm coming into this dicussion late, but I have been searching the forums for information on the permanent alliance and this is the only thread that pops up in the search that comes even close to discussing it.

Can someone explain what the pre-requisites for a permanent alliance really are? I've had fascism forever, and I've been in a defensive pact with the second place civ for 100s of turns. But permanent alliance does not even appear as an option in the trade window.

I've entered into permanent alliances before in other games, but the thing that is frustrating me to no end is that there is no logic to whether or not the game gives you the permanent alliance option in the trading window or not. Some games it appears as an option sometime after I discover fascism. Other games, it never appears at all.

Why is this random? What am I missing? Does it depend on whether or not I start the game as a custom game or as a regular game? That is the only thing I can think of.

[Will9]

I wish I could help you, but I trouble getting in denfencive pacts. So could someone explain this to me?

[zeace]

Before you start the game, you have to enable PA from the custom game screen. It's near the raging barbarian option.

I turned it on a long time ago, and had never seen an alliance. But eventually I was playing a game where there were 4 civs left, all close to the same size. I was barely beatin Saladin in a space race. Suddenly he and Nappy form a permanant alliance and they have twice as many parts flying to space as I do. I realized I couldn't beat both of them, so I sent a PA invite to Mansa who gratefully accepted.

In the end it was the closest space race I've ever been in. I chopped all 4 forests in my capital down on the last turn to get the final component built before the other team got theirs.

But I haven't seen a PA since...

[Nugog]

I always have the PA option on, and have seen the AI civ's forming them.

Strangely however, I can only remember the AI's forming them when I am playing with a builder mindset, which is not that often, so it may just be a coincidence.

When I am warmongering, my usual style of play, the AI never forms them, that I have actually seen.

This does strike me as a little strange......

[Will9]

Is there any way to turn PAs on during gameplay?

[Nugog]

Originally posted by Will9
Is there any way to turn PAs on during gameplay?

Not that I know of.

I'm pretty sure that the only way is to turn the option on, on the setup menu of a custom game.

[Quillan]

Also coming into this late, but the problem with the Apollo Program in the original post is that only one can be under construction per team. Saladin was probably building it, so it wouldn't let yours continue. I had a similar situation earlier tonight, when I got into a permanent alliance with Lizzy. I had Democracy and she didn't when it formed, but apparently she jumped at the opportunity to build the Statue of Liberty in some little hole-in-the-wall shantytown (176 turns!). It wouldn't let me build it because she was already building it. She stopped later and I started in one of my higher production cities.

[jdchambe]

thanks. I remember now. in the games where I have seen them, it was a custom game. they really ought to update the in-game information for regular play. I mean in regular (non-custom) games it says that the tech enables permanent alliances. Not sure I understand why the tech tree would be telling me something that isn't even possible in the default game play without at least giving a warning like "oh, by the way, we disabled this feature in regular play". :rolleyes

Not providing that crucial piece of information to players who tend to not play the custom games is frustration with a capital 'F'.

[Badtz Maru]

Originally posted by Smellycowsquid
Just a thought, can you have more than one civ in an alliance?

Not since one of the earlier patches...can't remember if it was 1.09 or if it lasted until 1.52. Before then I had some interesting games where there were two permanent alliances that everybody was in.

I've never had the AI partner in a permanent alliance refuse to research what I told them to research.

[joncnunn]

On the research thing; if you supply the last beakers towards it; the AI will follow your lead when you pick the new tech.

If the AI supplys the last beakers towards it, then the AI naturally picks what to start with, and kind of assumes you'll follow their lead.

You are however free to research a different tech instead and in addition there is the sugest the AI change it's focus on reserach to yours.

[greenday_234]

A suggestion to firaxis on the next patch:

For the PA formation each of the team-members should be allowed to build National Wonders and who ever FINISHES it in the team first gets the bonus.

I entered into a PA just the other day with Cyrus prior to that I'd been working on The Statue of Liberty I'd sacrtificed a Great Engineer to be 3 turns away from completeing it, I entered into the PA and Cyrus decided that he'd be allowed to build it instead and it was going to take him 190 turns! Needless to say I'm pissed. That issue really should be resolved.

[Quillan]

I'm also curious if anyone else has notice this item. I'm not sure if this is by design, or my game bugged, but in my last game I had started researching Radio. It was going to take me 16 turns to finish (marathon speed). A turn or two after starting, I entered a permanent alliance with Cyrus, and suddenly it was going to take me 20 turns more to finish! The beaker cost of all techs I didn't already have went up in cost. It wasn't quite double, but Radio went from 27,000 to 40,000 beakers. I reloaded the game to double check, stayed out of the alliance, and finished it in 16 turns...