How the masters handle barbarians?

[Badtz Maru]

Originally posted by LzPrst


I have seen barbarians walk right past an enemy city and into my territory...

And you've probably seen barbarians not attack your city and instead leave your borders - I know I have. It's just more memorable when it happens the other way.

[Schtix]

I'm definetly no master, but in my most recent game I have an empire in the early (or late? Because if it goes "backwards..." well, 180 BC either way) BC's that's stretched out over a peninsula. I've convienently had two barbarian cities built in the reigon, one of which I razed (there just wasn't anything for me to do with it really) and another which I captured. That provided me with some wheat, and as a buffer against some nearby empires.

Either way, I focus my military units on boarders with other civs, because I feel the most threat from them. I will also put archers on or nearby important resources, like copper or iron that I need to keep my civ going. I'll have chariots every few towns as well to put down any warriors or archers, and maybe slow down axemen.

So, I deal with them in the way that is more effecient for me, but probably not the smartest because nothing comes of the XP my units gain, really. Oh well. =)

[Shaka II]

Originally posted by Cadarn

On big maps it isn't always viable to produce units whose aim is solely to keep the fog (and therefore the BArbs) at bay.

I think he should play huge highlands on marathon. A barbtastic experience. It certainly helps to get some axes out on the forested hills, if you can link up with copper before their axes appear.

I've only played one huge highlands map on emperor about half way through, but one of my axemen who was scouting the map came across a stack of a dozen barbs, mostly swordsmen and axemen with a horse archer or two. I ran away as fast as I could, but ran straight into another stack and they got me.

I played a standard highlands on emperor, which wasn't nearly as bad, but I also used 9 civs instead of 7, which helped close the borders faster. Still, the barbarian macemen have to be defended against if there's any fog left. Something about the highlands. Scared the Romans too, enough to build Hadrian's wall.

[trev]

On higher difficulty levels I will sometimes ignore the barb cities knowing that the AI will inefficiently send 1 or 2 units at a time against the city and lose them often. This occupies the AI's attention and makes them less likely to attack me, and I spend the time building units for a surprise attack on the AI.

[Fallenhero]

Barb cities make good buffers against AI expansion. I try to wait until the AI has softened them a bit (one unit at a time) and then swope in.

If I get early copper I park an axeman on good terrain within the barb city radius and chew up the archers that get sent against me. You get easy promotions and don't have to chase down pillagers.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Badtz Maru
And you've probably seen barbarians not attack your city and instead leave your borders - I know I have.

Not me. I have seen some wandered about in my empire, but would eventually attack something.

[curtsibling]

My rage at the barbs sometimes leads me to drop everything else and declare a crusade on the beggars!

Once I have knights and mace men, the barbs are toast...
But this is usually after ages of archer lookouts and axe battles..

But they vanish as my empire spreads...
Evil swinehounds that they are!

[Aridea]

When I first started playing on the higher difficulty levels (noble and up) the barbarians came in a destroyed every farm, cottage/hamlet/village, and improvement I made. I had archers in my cities so they didn't take any, but they sure screwed up my whole little empire. One thing I also noticed is that the barbarians seem to attack more when I play a huge world on marathon or epic.

Before this started happening I used to play a peaceful builder rather than going for a lot of offensive military power; I had to change my tactics a bit (not to say you can't be a peaceful builder). Now what I do is make sure I research bronze working as soon as possible. As soon as the bronze working research is done I settle a city near the closest copper resource if there isn't already one in my borders and I immediately start making some axemen. I station one axeman on each of my copper and iron resources. Then I scatter a few near my borders. Since I've been doing his I haven't had a hard time with the barbarians at all. It also seems like less of them come and attack me when I have axemen, spearmen, and swordsmen stationed around.

As far as the barbs attacking the AI Civs, I have seen it happen, but it seems like they always attack them later on. I usually see the barbs really coming after me starting at about 1200BC, and I don't see them attacking the AI civs until they stop bothering me.

I don't always like taking over the barbarian cities because of the locations and such, but I usually will take them because if I don't certain AI's (Cesear and Monty) take them over, or they raze the city and then settle right next to it's remains. Unfortunately this brings them close to my borders, and then end up using these area's as their staging area to attack me.

[The keeper]

Playing highlands map with raging barbs is an adrenaline rush.

There are probably 30 city ruins over the map. Normal sized map.

[Generaldoktor]

Originally posted by The keeper
Playing highlands map with raging barbs is an adrenaline rush.

There are probably 30 city ruins over the map. Normal sized map.

Ah, you discovered my little secret! The mountain groupings and profligate forests create dozens of little niches hidden from the AI and you that spawn the units and cities and then, BARB EMPIRES on these type maps. The result is a lot like "Space Invaders," with wave after wave coming in. Doesn't really make for a good choice for CS Slingshot, or other research heavy strategies, but early Bronze-working is a must! Horsemen are also helpful. I form axe-heavy search and destroy groups as quick as I can, sacrificing other builds and research and then go hunting.

My experience is the barbs will go after AI as well big time, on these type maps, so if you solve your Barb issue early with aforementioned "killer groups," the AI end up with the problem, while your groups soon find many barb city sites for pillage or "change of ownership."

Still it is equivalent I think to adding one difficulty level on to whatever you think you're playing. Doing it on a "huge" map, with "continuous" mountain chains, or whatever that's called on a custom world, makes it even more fierce. Yeah; oh that rush! Briing 'em on!

[Overcast32]

For me, usually keeping a few units out and about or Fortified on a hill to keep the fog of war away from my cities is a better and more efficient way of managing this than replacing units or improvements.

I find about 1800-800 BC seems about a key time for the barb rushes (with barbs not raging, of course). Usually, if I have about 3-5 units for hill guarding and/or heading off the barbs, I do well. I don't expand too quickly anymore, either... It's easier to guard two strong cities than 5 so/so ones.

I try to get my scouting warriors the Woodsmen Promotion (level 2 will give you additional movement in forests). Then instead of attacking the barbs directly, I put those units in a square next to the imconing barbarian and let my warrior "defend" getting his Forest/Jungle defense bonus too - if I can.

I typically don't make a whole tone of worker units, usually 3-4 will hold me the whole game, unless I really need to chop-produce fast. So a couple extra military units to safeguard the early years seems to pay off in the end. It beats losing a well grown cottage in the early game for 20+ turns (time to rebuild and re-grow the cottage).

I'm by no means a master at all! But, I'm getting a bit better at warding off the barbs - just keep the target time period in mind from the game start - be ready for a number of them by 1800 BC or so, and you should be able to hold them off. Head them off quick too - whenever I wait, they seem to get "thicker" and it's more of a pain warding off their attacks.

[Generaldoktor]

You do have to head them off quick, simply because they don't die on their own unless AI kill them and they do accumulate over time combat promotions just like your units do. AI will fight them and contrary to some posts I've seen around the board, barbs will attack key AI cities, I've even seen them wipe out Tokugawa and nearly Huyna (I finished him) in two separate games and attack other AI on other occasions relentlessly, particularly if "raging." But you can't count on the AI to kill significant numbers of them, because barbs will home in on you as much or more than AI and once they do, they're in your space and your problem.

Picking prominent defensive ground and "defending" appears to be the secret to killing large numbers of them. I remember when Civ4 came out, one prominent member of this board complained constantly that there was no point to playing the game because barbs were wiping his improvements and units out from the early stages. First of all, arrogantly assuming he knew all about the game from playing Civ3, he probably had "raging barbs" turned on (and was playing immediately on "monarch" or something.) Raging barbs really means "raging" in Civ4. Secondly, he probably attacked them on sight and they, if not all units, appear to have an intrinsic advantage on defense. If you can goad them into attacking you, you get this advantage. I lost a good many early games myself before I figured this out. Seems to work pretty good with AI also.

The player above who mentions he builds a lot of military early has got the right idea. This is critical if "raging" is turned on, no matter what your difficulty level. Fight them with lots of warriors if you have to, hopefully accumulating promotions. Even after archers and axes appear among the barbs, a fair number of their incursions are just with unpromoted warriors. (I think they have to "produce" the higher level units from barb cities, requiring copper just like we do, though I'm not sure of this due to Fog of War.) A defending, as opposed to attacking warrior with the right promotions and terrain can sometimes withstand an axe. You can cushion yourself by building a lot of them, until you get your own archers and axes.

Cash is not important in the early game, so, if you get a decent amount from goodie huts, upgrade those warriors to axes as soon as you have the capability. I think a lot of these guys doing Oracle slingshot and other stunts that second-rate the military early are either "buffered" by AI or chopping like h-ll to produce stuff with their early worker(s). They probably also have "raging" turned off, even if they are playing on higher levels. Otherwise, without a race to archery and only then, metal-casting, I don't see how they survive.

[Gherald]

Barbarians are useful for 10 exp heroic epic units, or for getting 5 exp for units fresh out of a barracks in the early game.

Immediately capturing barbarian cities is often not good for your economy. Unless you need to beat an AI to getting them, I suggest waiting until your culture is near, workers have built a road, and are ready to make a productive city out of it. Otherwise, the hit to your science % is rarely worth it.

You can also use barb cities as a promotion factory, attacking only when there are at least 2 units so as to never capture the city. I did this once... my culture had completely surrounded the barb city. Eventually it revolted, which was sad, since it was in the middle of a desert and not really useful. I wish city revolt popups had a third "leave them be" option, rather than just "install new governor" or "disband city".

[Generaldoktor]

Those barb cities are a terrible temptation, but even on huge Highlands maps, which I think generate about the most, I've rarely known of more than two or three at the same time that I've actually found. They are often in good locations, as the "barb AI" selects them using mathamatically sound criteria and I like to snatch them even if it does drive my maintenance up for a time, adjusting my other expansion accordingly. If they are not in a good position, I raze them. Leaving barbs around when you might get involved in another war or more barbs from another source and be unable to deal with them, is just too dangerous.

They generally only leave two or three defenders, sending the rest at you or AI, but they build city walls and said defenders get entrenchment bonus for more and more turns if you just leave them. If they get loose because you're busy, they can easily pillage numerous expensive improvements. This is too risky to just leave as a "boot camp" for new military, IMO. "Kill 'em or co-opt 'em," is what I say.

Edit: Oh, the other thing about leaving them. Some other player/AI might capture them and you can lose good positioning/resources, by waiting around.