Civilization IV: Alpha Centauri II

[player1]

And I don't see it as likely that they can get the AI to run a unit workshop effectively.

It's not that much different then current AI chosing promotion for its units. But it does leave bigger margin for non-optimal AI.

[Adagio]

Originally posted by PrinceBimz
I think SMAC2 should be completely rebuilt from the ground up. The one thing that definitely needs to be included is a unit workshop, that was my favorite thing from SMAC.

That was the worst thing in SMAC. If (when) they make a sequel, they should also make an option to play a normal game (read: without the workshop... and without the 1000+ premade units)

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Adagio
That was the worst thing in SMAC. If (when) they make a sequel, they should also make an option to play a normal game (read: without the workshop... and without the 1000+ premade units)

Unit workshop haters

[Senethro]

Spammers

The unit workshop is one of those features where you get out of it as much as you put in. Some people don't have much to bring.

[fed1943]

How wrong I was!
I always thought that people who liked civ2 or smac or civ4 would like all three.
Best regards,

[Adagio]

The workshop is just adding more micromanagement to the game, while not being fun at all

[EternalSpark]

Originally posted by Senethro
The unit workshop is one of those features where you get out of it as much as you put in. Some people don't have much to bring.

I liked the Unit Workship, but if a game feature doesn't work if you "don't have much to bring" to it, it doesn't deserve to be in the game.

Not sure where I saw this (I believe its in the back of the Civ4 manual, but I'm not sure), but I recall reading that the Unit Workshop really flustered a lot of people. If that's true, the concept of a Unit Workship cannot be seen as something required, or even ideal for these kinds of games.

[Adagio]

The unit workshop is definitely a hate it or love it feature. I can see why some people might like it, but it just didn't seem fun, for me it brought more frustration, than what it was worth

[Robert]

Before SMAC was made I had ideas about a 'workhop' in which you could define your own units.
When I saw it in SMAC I found out that I didn't like it. It's not like I never gave it a change. I gave it all the change I wanted to give it, but it failed.

[Kataphraktoi]

Why would you not like the power to make units? Unless of course you like cranking out just 5 units the whole game (workers,settlers, and current main battle unit, secondary battle unit with different counters and some sort of city bombardment unit)

Not to mention units customized for the job will be more effective

There should be hundreds++++ of units in civ IMHO

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by EternalSpark
I liked the Unit Workship, but if a game feature doesn't work if you "don't have much to bring" to it, it doesn't deserve to be in the game.

Isn't it the same way with Civ 4?

For example, we have discussions of various civics, traits, etc. We have posters do number crunching on spreadsheets or even write their own programs to figure things out.

This reflects real life, IMO...

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Kataphraktoi
There should be hundreds++++ of units in civ IMHO

So you'd put a grenadier on a horse "chassis"? Take the Cavalry guy off his horse and put him on a little raft? Take the guy with the bow and arrow, give him a Knight's helmet, and stick him on a catapult?

Sorry, this is Civ, not some Kindergarten kid's art project. There's a reason units developed as they did in history.

[Badtz Maru]

Originally posted by EternalSpark


I liked the Unit Workship, but if a game feature doesn't work if you "don't have much to bring" to it, it doesn't deserve to be in the game.

Not sure where I saw this (I believe its in the back of the Civ4 manual, but I'm not sure), but I recall reading that the Unit Workshop really flustered a lot of people. If that's true, the concept of a Unit Workship cannot be seen as something required, or even ideal for these kinds of games.

I liked the concept behind the Unit Workshop, but I couldn't get into it for a couple of reasons. First was the nonsense techs, a lot of the 'technology' was Star Trek-esque technobabble or too far out for the setting. It didn't feel realistic or help me immerse myself in the game when I was making buggies with neutronium armor and black hole guns. Second reason was that there wasn't too much to do with it. Usually the auto-builder would design units using all the best advances, units you would want to use 95% of the time - there might be strategies using alternate designs but they weren't necessary to dominate in warfare, and about the only time I changed anything in the long run was to design an inferior, cheaper design for emergency rushing purposes when I couldn't finish the top of the line model in one turn. There weren't many special abilities in unit design, you just got stronger defense and stronger offense - wow, you have antimatter cannons for your exploration boat, now it's strength 6 instead of strength 4. Not much excitement or flavor there.

There were a lot of things I liked about Alpha Centauri, but the Unit Workshop was not one of them. Now, I'd like to see something similar with modern era or realistic future era units like you could see in Civ4, they would just need to add some cheap military techs like Swords, Axes, Stirrups, Bows, Recurved Bows, etc., then you could combine those with other techs to come up with unit buidling options, i.e. Bronze Swords, Bronze Axes, Bronze Shields, Bronze Armor, Saddle, Stirrup, Short Bow, Stone Arrowheads, Bronze Arrowheads, etc.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by LordShiva
So you'd put a grenadier on a horse "chassis"? Take the Cavalry guy off his horse and put him on a little raft? Take the guy with the bow and arrow, give him a Knight's helmet, and stick him on a catapult?

Sorry, this is Civ, not some Kindergarten kid's art project. There's a reason units developed as they did in history.

You should try Alpha Centauri some time to find out how the unit workshop really works.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Badtz Maru
It didn't feel realistic or help me immerse myself in the game when I was making buggies with neutronium armor and black hole guns. Second reason was that there wasn't too much to do with it. Usually the auto-builder would design units using all the best advances, units you would want to use 95% of the time...

The auto-builder makes decent units, but they are far from the best. I always make my own designs. Some examples:

- a 1/1/1 (weapons/armour/movement) unit with orbital insertion ability. I can drop them in cities I have just conquered, then upgrade them to my best defenders.

- a foil with only gun and hypnotic trance to go looking for Isles of the Deep. IoDs are the best naval units in the game.

- a 1/1/1 with the police power for garrisoning the big cities.

- probe team equipment first on foil then on crusier. This is a must if you are up against the Pirates (or are the Pirates yourself).

- terraforming equipment on gravships.

- fast formers (terraforming equipment on speeder).

- fast supply crawlers with fission engine for rushing wonders.

You don't need good armour on attackers (only weapons count) and good weapons on defenders (only armour count). It is cheaper and more effective to make specialised attackers and defenders.