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  • Questions on culture bombs

    I’ve heard lots of talk of these being effective ways of taking cities without a fight but my own experience suggests that they can be counterproductive and that settling them in the target city will often yield far better results.

    In the current game I am playing I have been generously granted three of those useless lay-abouts who call themselves Great Artists. One came through being first to Music and the next two came through GP generation – my only artist generating structure being National Epic!!!

    Prior to creating a great work in Madras, the Russian city of Yekaterinburg had already suffered a revolt so had to finally switch with the bomb. Since the great work, the Russian citizens have settled down and shown no further desire to be Indian.

    The second proposed benefit of the bomb was to switch a rice farm from Russian lands to Indian. Sure, the borders moved but the one tile that stayed in Russian hands was the rice. It seemed that the only logic for it staying was that it was a resource tile but very frustrating since the continent was very low on food supplies and had neither corn nor wheat.

    The third bomb was perhaps the most demonstrative of this with Moscow captured in a war and needed to recover some of its former Russian lands. Having just completed the Notre Dame, you would have thought that the city would have expanded rapidly but the game decided that this was all “Russian culture”. Why it does this I am not sure since I did get the cultural benefit of the Academy in Moscow? But the target of the culture bomb in Moscow was some clams which were still within the boundaries of St Petersburg. After the culture bomb the clam tile was still in Russian lands and it was ONE tile from Moscow. I am sure that, if my Artist had never set foot in Moscow that tile would have eventually switched as the basic culture of the city grew. But having set the next growth target at 7500 (5000 in Standard game), the next growth for Moscow would be a long time coming. In short, by planting the culture bomb I have delayed the seizure of that tile from around 15 turns to about 200 turns!!

  • #2
    Hmmph it works in a perfectly consistent way but I'm not sure I can be bothered explaining it in excruciating detail.

    Basically, when you take a city, the original culture remains. For example:
    Moscow has 6000 Russian Culture, you capture it and culture bomb it, creating 4000 player culture.
    Moscow *still* exerts 6000 Russian culture onto the neighboring lands, but *only* in territory which is also within the radius of another Russian city. So basically, any ex-Moscow tile within the radius of St.Peters will have 6000 Russian culture and 4000 player culture - control of those tiles remains firmly with Russia.

    So when used in established territory culture bombs can only really take control over *uncontested* tiles, in any city with more than a bomb's worth of culture a single bomb will be quite ineffectual. Culture bombs are more effective in territory without significant culture built up. This is all by design.

    I actually find culture bombs most useful for instantly crushing the disorder and granting the 60% defensive bonus.

    Most the time I try to burn them on techs – along with the obvious (arty techs) you can get some good stuff, Monarchy, Theology, Divine Right, Liberalism, Printing Press, Nationalism, Democracy, Radio, Mass Media… and others too.

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    • #3
      Exactly. I once culturally took over a Russian city that was completely surrounded by my own territory. The city was originally barbarian, and the Russians apparently never did much to boost their influence in it. When it became mine, I razed it (because it was in a horrible location), but the area around the city still held a percentage of Russian AND barbarian culture for dozens of turns. It faded out slowly since the city pushing it no longer existed.

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      • #4
        That would explain a lot of things but would not explain why the Madras culture bomb could not “steal” the Russian rice from Rostov. It stole a couple of desert tiles but the one tile on that line of latitude that did not switch was the rice.

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        • #5
          Culture buildup can be quite strange when there are multiple cities exerting cultural influence on the tile. It is entirely possible to get "islands" of high culture. Whether a tile has a resource or not has nothing to do with it.

          If you open the ini file and set Cheatcode...
          CheatCode=chipotle

          then you can hold down shift and mouseover tiles to display the amount of culture on tiles, which can be pretty useful to see how the culture buildup works.

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          • #6
            Yeah...I think the only time a culture bomb is worth detonating is the free one from Music which can really rip into weak cultures:

            I reloaded a game to see whether my call to war 'early' vs roosy was the right one - he promptly dropped a bomb in one of target cities, pushing my borders back so I had a 3 tile march to that city as well a big defence bonus.

            I've got one to use in my current game's modern era, so I'm off to see what effect he'll have on Japan's island colonies that I assume are low culture as I've already managed to push them back by rush-buying cultural improvements in the barb town I took in 1800 something(!)

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            • #7
              My favorite way to use the culture bomb is like Blake said, killing the disorder and bumping up the defese on a newly captured city. More specifically I like to research music first then when I capture an enemy capital (or one that has a better stratigic location) I drop the culture bomb then move in some workers to chop rush some units. Good way to keep a war going.

              I usually get 2-3 per game. I rarely try for them unless I know I am about the conqure an area.

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              • #8
                I think there should be some non-peacefull mean of capturing terrain. After all wars don't usualy occur over cities but over the resources they "control."

                As it is now you concure cities, but convert the country side.
                Visit my CTP-page and get TileEdit and a few other CTP related programs.
                Download and test SpriteEdit development build.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Blake
                  Basically, when you take a city, the original culture remains. For example:
                  Moscow has 6000 Russian Culture, you capture it and culture bomb it, creating 4000 player culture.
                  Moscow *still* exerts 6000 Russian culture onto the neighboring lands, but *only* in territory which is also within the radius of another Russian city.
                  I understand this part. If Russia were to recapture Moscow, its borders would instantly return to their old state with all the old culture intact. But what happens if you destroy Moscow? Is the cultural influence still there, if the lands fall within the boundaries of other cities? If not, it might work out better to raze the city, plop down your own settler, and then a culture bomb.
                  Age and treachery will defeat youth and skill every time.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Quillan


                    I understand this part. If Russia were to recapture Moscow, its borders would instantly return to their old state with all the old culture intact. But what happens if you destroy Moscow? Is the cultural influence still there, if the lands fall within the boundaries of other cities? If not, it might work out better to raze the city, plop down your own settler, and then a culture bomb.
                    Yes the culture is still there, I tried it a few times, when the AI had planted a city right next to the square where I wanted it.
                    In one occation I razed a size 2 barbarian city, on an island, with no other cities. When I some turns later built a city within the former barbarian borders it had massive unhappiness from people who yearned for their motherland.

                    Another thing I have noticed is that the tiles emediately east and west (2 and 4) of a "border" city is much harder to convert than the tiles emediately north and south (1/7 and 3/9) of them.

                    As an excample I havd concured a number of Japanees and Mongol cities along a long N-S border, at first the cities were surrounded by 5-7 Japanees/Mongol tiles, but as they gained culture the border straightened out, and eventually bent back so only the tile to the east was not mine. This tile has since flipped in my fawor, for all the cities except one. In no case did the japaneese/Mongols have a city close by on the same latitude.
                    Visit my CTP-page and get TileEdit and a few other CTP related programs.
                    Download and test SpriteEdit development build.

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