State Property?

[MasterDave]

You definitely take a hit in research when you switch from free market to State property. I have noticed a 20% reduction in beakers in most cases when I make the switch. However, once your empire grows past a certain size (usually about 10 cities +), the savings you get in maintenance will allow you to turn up your science rate to compensate for the loss of commerce. Therefore, just like Civ3, State Property ("Communism" in Civ3) is the best government for those large, expansive empires.

I do not think that the civic itself is too powerful, as is not available until fairly late in the tech tree, and it is only advantageous for large and spread out empires. However, I do not understand the logic behind the food bonus, given the widespread starvation that resulted when the early Bolsheviks "collectivized" the farms shortly after taking power.

As to the political discussion and the praising of so-called "regulated" capitalism, I will only quote a Roman proverb:"Once the members of the Senate realize that they can spend the Treasury to buy themselves public support, the Republic is doomed."

[Yosho]

Originally posted by MasterDave
You definitely take a hit in research when you switch from free market to State property. I have noticed a 20% reduction in beakers in most cases when I make the switch. However, once your empire grows past a certain size (usually about 10 cities +), the savings you get in maintenance will allow you to turn up your science rate to compensate for the loss of commerce. Therefore, just like Civ3, State Property ("Communism" in Civ3) is the best government for those large, expansive empires.

You don't even have to be that big...even at 8-10 cities, even with courthouses and everything, you still almost always save more money on maintance then you lose from the trade routes. Add in the food bonus, and State Property just seems much stronger for almost any empire, except perhaps if you can already run 100% reserach (or 100% culture, if going for a culture win) with free trade from insane shrine profits or something.

Either state property should be weakened a bit, or the other civics in that catagory should be strengthened a bit.

[gilfan]

Originally posted by MasterDave
As to the political discussion and the praising of so-called "regulated" capitalism, I will only quote a Roman proverb:"Once the members of the Senate realize that they can spend the Treasury to buy themselves public support, the Republic is doomed."

The politcal systems and corruption have nothing at all to do with the economic system. The point was regarding communism as an economic system, not how any particular government selects the people who wield political power. Besides, I think it's pretty safe to assume political corruption is a universal kinda thing


The top world economies are capitalist. It's hard to argue with results. THe only significant world economy that is not is China, and it's only significant for two reasons. One, when you have over a billion citizens, just the sheer enormity of your population base is going to make you a world player. Two, in recent years they have started implementing capitalist reforms. Before that, even with a billion people, they were still a wreck.

[Ijuin]

The other economic civics should be increased to balance the higher power of State Property (and also Environmentalism). I propose that Free Market be given two extra trade routes per city instead of one, and that Mercantilism be given two free specialists per city instead of one.

While we're on the subject, I think that Bureaucracy is a bit weak as well--most of the gold it gives you in your capital gets eaten up by the civic cost. I would up the strength of Bureacuracy to give +100% commerce and production instead of 50%.

[Jvstin]

Originally posted by MasterDave
You definitely take a hit in research when you switch from free market to State property. I have noticed a 20% reduction in beakers in most cases when I make the switch. However, once your empire grows past a certain size (usually about 10 cities +), the savings you get in maintenance will allow you to turn up your science rate to compensate for the loss of commerce. Therefore, just like Civ3, State Property ("Communism" in Civ3) is the best government for those large, expansive empires.

I've definitely made more hay with State Property on the larger maps than when I go for miniature ones. But it is my style, generally, to go for a decent size in my empire, and thus, always seem to do better with SP than with Free Market, all other things being equal.

It might also have to do with my fondness for watermills.

[potoroo]

Originally posted by gilfan
The top world economies are capitalist.

They top world economies are actually mixed economies. They learnt their lesson after unregulated banking brought about the Great Depression.

[fed1943]

Yes,corruption in itself is an independent thing of politic or economical systems:what corrupts or get corrupted are just people.
But,as a pratical matter,in a democratic and capitalist regime,you need a much higher corruption level to achieve the same results,because there are multiple,quite independent,sources of power.
Best regards,

[Chronus9]

Regulated capitalism is becoming unworkable because globalization is allowing companies to move to 3rd world countries if they don't like a countries regulations, forcing a run to the bottom.

I find it interesting how capitalism seems to flow smoothly from a global perspective. People may state the evils of capitalism and how it keeps the poor, poor and the rich, rich. Now we see a case where wealth (in the form of jobs and such), under free trade ideas (or somewhat free trade ideas), is moving from rich countries (USA) to poorer countries (India, Mexico). Could it be that the trickle down theory does have some merit?

Even more interesting is when US citizens, who live in a country that supports capitalism, free trade, and such, are increasingly wanting to implement more regulations to keep the wealth from flowing out. Go figure . . . when capitalism brings us wealth, we bask in it. When it starts to distribute the wealth to the poorer folks, we try to regulate it. Could it be that capitalism "doesn't work" because the country eventually shifts to a more socialistic economy?

[Yosho]

Originally posted by Ijuin
The other economic civics should be increased to balance the higher power of State Property (and also Environmentalism). I propose that Free Market be given two extra trade routes per city instead of one, and that Mercantilism be given two free specialists per city instead of one.

That would be overpowered, I think. No need to add that much more money to the game. Probably all that has to be done to balance them is to change the civic upkeep cost of the 4 civics.

While we're on the subject, I think that Bureaucracy is a bit weak as well--most of the gold it gives you in your capital gets eaten up by the civic cost. I would up the strength of Bureacuracy to give +100% commerce and production instead of 50%.

Huh? Bureacuracy is by far the strongest civic in that catagory, unless you have a very large empire or are making nothing but millitary units.