Obsoloted Monestaries?

[Saurus]

Monestaries are Obsoloted by "Scientific Method".

However, even after this I am able to build new missionaireies in cities with monestaries.
However, I cannot build new monestaries.

So what exactly becomes obsolote with Scientific Method?
Do monestaries lose the 10% reserach bonus but keep other benefits? (like able to build missionaries and that +2 culture)

(If they keep culture production even after beeing obsolote, then for a player aiming for a cultural victory It could be a nice idea to build as many of them as possible in those citites witch are supposed to reach legendary culture status)

[Urban Ranger]

Obsoleted buildings could produce culture only. In the case of monestaries, they can no longer generate beakers.

You probably want the cathedrals for making culture - which means build large numbers of temples all over the place, preferably for different religions.

[Saurus]

I thought of that myself also but If this is the case then what exactly is the difference between an obeliks and an obsoloted obelisk then?
Both produces +1 culture and nothing else ..

[johnmcd]

Originally posted by Saurus
I thought of that myself also but If this is the case then what exactly is the difference between an obeliks and an obsoloted obelisk then?
Both produces +1 culture and nothing else ..

You can't build new obelisks once they are obsolted and any that came free with the Henge are taken away by the catapult teams.

[gus_smedstad]

< spelling nazi > Obsoleted. Not obsoloted or obsolted. Monestary is a lot more forgivable, but it's monastery, as in "monastic" not "monestic." < /spelling nazi >

Correct, Monasteries stop giving the +10% beaker bonus, and you can't build them any more. Which is actually a major drawback if you have Free Religion, because one of the cheaper ways of dealing with unhappiness in a city is to introduce another religion. A missionary = 40 hammers compared to 80 for a temple or 50 for a theater, and it unlocks building a temple to that religion as well.

The AI never builds monasteries, but it should. Leaving aside being able to build missionaries, they're cheap at 60 hammers. Not as cheap as Libraries of course, but compare them to Universities. 40% of the benefit for 30% of the cost. As a rule of thumb I'll build them just for the beakers if I have 20 base beakers in a city.

Obelisks are indeed odd, because they don't actually lose their benefit once they're obsolete, you just can't build them. Unless of course you built Stonehenge, in which case you just lost a culture source permanently. Stonehenge rather annoys me for that reason because it prevents you from building real, permanent obelisks. Sure, +1 Culture (or +2 after 1000 years) isn't huge, but if you otherwise have zero, it's a problem.

- Gus

[Hermann the Lombard]

Originally posted by gus_smedstad
< spelling nazi > Obsoleted. Not obsoloted or obsolted. Monestary is a lot more forgivable, but it's monastery, as in "monastic" not "monestic." < /spelling nazi >

And of course that perennial favorite: "That's a hill, not a horse!"

[Adagio]

Monasteries should still be buildable after discovering Scientific Method, when obsoleted they should only lose the 10% beaker bonus

And while we talk about it, Stonehenge should make permanent obelisks in the cities, instead of obelisks that gets torn down after the discovery of calendar. Stonehenge is only usefull if you start near stone (or is industrious) and you really need the culture boost (which makes it useless to civs that already gets +2 culture) and if you don't start near too many resources that needs calendar

[Tau Ceti]

Stonehenge is cheap enough to be built without stone. In fact, connecting stone will probably take so long (unless you have it within your city radius and go straight for Masonry + The Wheel) that it would have been quicker to build without it. For Philosophical civs, it is also worth builiding for the GP points alone, and it makes a great start in a culture strategy since it quickly starts generating 16 culture/turn.

[axisworks]

I think I obsoloted my monistatic monostarry.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by gus_smedstad
Which is actually a major drawback if you have Free Religion, because one of the cheaper ways of dealing with unhappiness in a city is to introduce another religion. A missionary = 40 hammers compared to 80 for a temple or 50 for a theater, and it unlocks building a temple to that religion as well.

However you can still train missionaries from existing monestaries.

[Adagio]

Originally posted by Tau Ceti
Stonehenge is cheap enough to be built without stone. In fact, connecting stone will probably take so long (unless you have it within your city radius and go straight for Masonry + The Wheel) that it would have been quicker to build without it.

Yes, but by waiting for the stone to arrive I could have build something else in the meantime. It just doesn't seem worth it, even though it's cheap

[Saurus]

For a culture-minded player, the permanent effect of an Obelisk should not be underestimated.
Sure +1/culture per turn is not much ... but it grows to +2 very soon. Then with free speach it will grow to +4 and with even one cathedral in place it will produce +5/turn. This is more than an artist produces.

For me the +5/cult in every city is much more important than the huge culture benefit stonechenge brings to my capital. When aiming for a cultural victory it is not my capital witch need a boost ... it is the other cities that need a helping hand.

[Adagio]

Yes, the obelisk could give some nice culture later, that's what makes stonehenge bad, as it removes all obelisks the same turn obelisks gets obsolete, leaving you with 0 obelisks at the time when their culture bonus is starting to become stronger

[Tau Ceti]

Originally posted by Adagio
Yes, but by waiting for the stone to arrive I could have build something else in the meantime.

That assumes that Stonehenge is still available if you wait. It tends to be built fairly quickly.

[Adagio]

Sure, it all depends on the situation, playing against 17 other civs, then you will never build it, if you don't take the first chance you get