Island starts

[uberfish]

When I get an island start I usually plan for cultural victory instead of beelining to optics/astronomy now, just because micromanaging troop transportation gets extremely irritating (one aspect of Civ that hasn't improved.)

[johnmcd]

Originally posted by uberfish
When I get an island start I usually plan for cultural victory instead of beelining to optics/astronomy now, just because micromanaging troop transportation gets extremely irritating (one aspect of Civ that hasn't improved.)

On an island heavy game it's still worth beelining to astronomy even if going for culture, especially if you have reason to believe that most nations are without religion. If you are the only person with trade routes then yours is the only religion that is spreading.

[Fallenhero]

I have won with Space Race but never thought to try cultural. I haven't been succesful with that yet on a large shared continent (uncouth I guess) so an Island start seems daunting.

I rarely go after other AI's either, except maybe a weak one that has a vital resource, usually coal/oil/aluminum, that no one wants to trade for or doesn't "see" yet.

Signifigant conquests would require long term planning with plenty of Galleons to bring enough troops for a crushing first strike. Having Org as a leader trait would help keep things managable but I'm not sure it's worth it on Monarch and above.

[uberfish]

Originally posted by johnmcd


On an island heavy game it's still worth beelining to astronomy even if going for culture, especially if you have reason to believe that most nations are without religion. If you are the only person with trade routes then yours is the only religion that is spreading.

I was referring to continental map starts where you just happen to be on an island, so the likelihood is that all AI will be religious already when you make contact. In cultural victory scenarios, I'm more concerned about acquiring other people's religions than converting them usually. (putting down a new coastal city after the computer gets optics often works)

It's better to prioritise literature, drama, music and liberalism than rush to astronomy if you want to go the cultural route.

[couerdelion]

Originally posted by platypotamus


That's been my strategy thusfar on this type of map, and it works really well. If you get to optics significantly before any other Civ, you can often times get the foreign advisor screen to show you having contact with every other civ, but few if any of them have contact with anyone aside from you.

I too was not talking about an islands map but rather continents where you just happen to be alone on your continent with the barbarians.

In every game I have played I don’t think I can every recall a situation where there were not at least four civs on one continent (or traversable with a galley). So your advantage is limited since they have been in contact for years before your small ship appears on the horizon.

Though you make a valid point, particularly, I think, with regards to getting in first on the resource trading, your “first to tech trade” argument is certainly weakened a little because it is your civilisation that is the isolated one and not theirs. All that has changed is that, rather than having 4 civs that know each other and one isolated. You now have 5 civs that know each other..

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I decided to ditch my Gandhi island post slingshot. The island was too unproductive with almost 50% of it being either desert, tundra or ice. Religion was likely to be the one source of happiness since the only happy resource was silk. It wasn’t exactly unplayable but rather incredibly dull and uninteresting will a long slow haul to optics in prospect.

Having selected Good Queen Bess for a new game, you never guess where I end up? That’s right! Napoleon to the south, Monty to the West and Genghis to the East.

Actually, not. It stuck me on an island although this island definitely had prospects. Quite apart from magic huts giving Experience, Gold, Mysticism and The Wheel, my capital can work Corn, Cattle, Copper, Marble and Oasis tiles. Island also has Fur, Silver, Whales in the tundra south and more food from Fish, Crabs, Clams, Sheep. What’s more, I didn’t get a single barbarian attack while I was building the Oracle and still have yet to lose a unit. The one downside is that a barbarian fishing village has been set up so I guess I can expect some pirate attacks.

[Fallenhero]

I've found that I usually can trade for "backfill" techs when I reach the other civs. Sometimes I trade Alpha, others it's one of the Techs on the road to Optics but you can do quite well with 6 civs to work with.

Plus, I like to know who is out there and where asap. And if there is a one or two city island off your coast you want to get that too.

The worst island situation is when you start inland and you're playing OCC.

[Quillan]

In my most recent game, things got interesting in this regard. It was a huge/continents map. I wound up alone on an island (a really large island). Cyrus has an island all to himself (not as large as mine). Washington and Saladin are sharing a large island. The rest (Isabella, Mansa, Huayna, Monty, Alexander and Louis) are sharing the only really large continent. Strangely, Saladin didn't develop a religion, nor did Washington or Cyrus. So when I got to Astronomy, my religions really are the only ones spreading through trade.

[couerdelion]

I missed out on the big religious bonus with the “discovery of new life forms”. Here there were five island groups on a continents map with Roosevelt, Saladin, Gandhi and Peter all on one island. Napoleon and Cyrus were both isolated with the French island appropriately resembling St Helena (best place for him really). I also had my own island but there was a non-ocean link to the final group of Huayna and Genghis.

Napoleon and Cyrus had no religion. Being the first to Optics, I found Cyrus within a few turns of sending out the Caravel and I spent little time in getting a second caravel to bring him. Napoleon, however had wisely bee-lined to Optics so by the time I’d found him, he was probably hobnobbing with the lads from the north. I just didn’t get round to sending out a missionary until he had already adopted on of the earlier religions.

Sometimes you may wish to avoid bee-lining immediately to Optics and Astronomy because your island could use some of the better wonders of that age. Fortunately, one of the better ones for your situation, The Colossus, lies conveniently on your main route

Being on an island is not just about bee-lining but about dealing with the isolation too. For this GPs and Wonders play a big role.

[Fallenhero]

Yes, I see your point it's, not just about bee-lining. If I can quarry stone early, I go for the Pyramids. The extra 2-3 population points allows you to keep up in the Tech race.

The one advantage of an island start is that if you have a high production 1st or 2nd city you can build wonders and not have to worry about your military, just keep enough for the barbs.

I do disagree on the Colossus though. It does lie "on the main route" but your destination is Astronomy which makes it obsolete.

It's nice to have, and If I have an uber coastal city I'll go for it but I much prefer to get the Great Lighthouse or Library

[Arrian]

I started alone in my most recent game
(standard/continents/Prince/Tokugawa), but discovered that there was another civ in galley range. I believe I discovered this when Isabella planted a city on "my" land. I was a tad surprised.

My continent was very big for just one civ (IIRC, I ended up with ~18 cities on it), so I was still quite a ways away from putting a city anywhere near hers. Plus, access to another civ ended up being quite a boon to me. As Tokugawa, having no one to beat on is a bad thing. She did me a favor and declared war on me fairly early on for no real ability to harm me (whereas it guaranteed that her city on my continent was toast), and I was able to do bad, bad things to her with Catapults/Samurai vs. Archers, and then finish her with Cannons/Grenadiers vs. Longbows. I picked up the Great Lighthouse and two shrines along the way (only two a poor showing by Crusader Girl).

Due to good positioning/scouting, I never really had much of a barb problem. Downside: I only captured one barb city (I destroyed a second one that was in the wrong place).

I like starting alone generally. It lets me build largely unmolested.

-Arrian

[platypotamus]

Originally posted by couerdelion


I too was not talking about an islands map but rather continents where you just happen to be alone on your continent with the barbarians.

Oh, I was referring to continents too. The game I'm playing now in fact, was a continents map. Ended up with 6 continentes, and 7 civs. I got my own continent, Hatti/Nappy shared one. Pete was shore-distance from them. So, all three had contact right from the get go. Huayna, Genghis, and Gandhi all were more isolated.

Nevertheless, I had alphatbet AND optics quickly enough that the only I was trading techs with everyone when the only other person with Alpha was Hatti. Sure, she was able to trade with Nappy and Peter (though her and Nappy were at war, so she didn't), but I had exclusive access to Genghis, Huayna, and Gandhi.

So yes, it's a bit of a limited advantage, and it might even be more of a leg-up to catch up to the civ-cluster, but every little advantage can help. Being alone on a continent should mean a focus on coastal cities and a focus on naval technologies. In that same game now, I'm the only civ with Frigates currently (some have the tech for it, but none have any built), and I have a fleet of about 12. My current enemy (Huayna) will NEVER get off of what remains of his continent to attack my waters or coast, and I've got a strong enough fleet to completely own the seas if I maintain it with upgrades/new ships.

[Ghandis Khan]

Cyrus got pig iron

I just had an intersting island game. I was playing as the Romans on prince with a normal sized world with continents.

I knew that I was on an island because I started this map before, so I decided I would attempt a
CSlingshot and then concentrate on the naval techs.

Well everything went as planned, I got the oracle, I founded my academy, I got found everyone else first and got the circumnavigation bonus, got the Collossus and I had a small lead in GNPfor most of the game, though Ghandi was close behind.

Now I know I had been neglecting my military so I switched production to units. Then Cyrus offers a defensive pact.

Cool!, I thought, that will help with the military situation so I can switch production back to economy buildings.

Then Cyrus declares war and drops 3 gallions full of soldiers on my land.




You fooled me, you fooled me, you've got pig iron, you've got all pig iron!

A couple of tuns later the Chinese and Greeks join in the war against me and I'm off to the dust bin of history.

[Brizey]

Re: Island starts

Originally posted by couerdelion
In short, the island situation is one where you have a licence to build so early forges will be quite useful while barracks and military units will be particularly useless.

I would be careful with forges because you have so few options to deal with health until much later in the game.

[Yosho]

Re: Re: Island starts

Originally posted by Brizey


I would be careful with forges because you have so few options to deal with health until much later in the game.

I don't agree. At worst, if you have no way to keep your health up, a forge will cost you 1 food/turn, and it will get you a lot more hammers then that. So, build another farm. Or build an aquaduct with the extra hammers you get. Whatever.

[Brizey]

I guess your right. At the limit, it will cost you a population point at maybe 50% of your cities, but most of the time many of the cities will be under the limit.