Diversion from tech path question

[couerdelion]

I’ve just realised a minor technical problem in which my twin strategies of driving my tech advantage and preparing for war has run into a little dilemma. The tech situation is sort of explained in the other thread “Staying ahead in the tech race”. The current situation is that I am thinking about moving through Paper for Education/Printing Press/Astronomy with the complementary strategies of early exploration for trade providing the fuel for the cities while the tech advantage accelerates through Universities and extra gold from Villages/Towns.

This more linear development naturally leaves gaps lower down and these include Monarchy and Feudalism. I can trade for these and in all likelihood, my trading partner will be from across the oceans (the Paper also saving me too much time with the circumnavigation allowing me to buy some maps or adding them to one or other tech trade).

But the war situation requires something different. I’m would be quite happy just going in with Catapults and Macemen against longbow with Horse Archers providing protection from any crossbowmen who might appear. The only problem with this strategy is that Cyrus has War Elephants who are at least the equal of anything I can put in the field. The simple solution is Engineering which will give me Pikemen for protection from them and, potentially, from Knights.

My gut feel is that the 10-12 turn diversion to Engineering is too much and also will undermine my strategy of avoiding researching techs lines that the AI is following. My guess is that they will soon have this tech so by researching it myself, I allow them to trade it among themselves. By not researching it I can always try to acquire it from another civilisation so save me the cost and allow me to continue on the path to technological utopia.

What do you all think. Is the 10-12 turn diversion too much or should I simply budget for this with a few extra macemen.in the invasion force and expect to take some serious losses along the way?

[uberfish]

Elephants aren't a big concern since macemen can take them on even terms, and they don't get defensive bonuses while macemen do. However, counterattacking knights are a major threat. If you can cut off Cyrus' horse (or iron) supply early on, that's probably the best way to go. Another option that works quite well is to take a few cities, sign a peace treaty when enough knights show up to stop you and finish him off with redcoats later. If your war aim is to capture the entire Persian empire now though, pikemen are the best way to ensure success.

[couerdelion]

Originally posted by uberfish
Elephants aren't a big concern since macemen can take them on even terms.

But it does mean that an escorted Elephant convoy can ignore my siege forces and I may need another army to try to stop them from doing any damage. I’m not so much worried about losing but simply about the waste of resources and units lost when a couple of pikemen would make a much more effective stack. In fact, now I think about it, a crossbowman would be a much more effective deterrent for another crossbow.

I should also check to see if Cyrus has horses or iron. I’m sure he has iron because I’ve seen Swordsmen about. But I’ve never seen any chariots or mounted archers so suspect he’s missing the gee-gee. But this probably doesn’t change matters too much. By the time I am ready to attack (also need a Caravel to protect my fishing rights), he may well have longbowmen so I’m probably going to lose 50% of my city attacks. I may also simply go in with 2:1 ratio of Cats to Macemen which will may result in fewer units lost.

Yeah, what the hell. Who needs engineering when you have the weight in numbers. Cyrus can rush units into the city to help defend it and they will just go the same way as those already there. By the time that his main army arrives, I’ll be the one in this city and can pick his units off piecemeal.

[couerdelion]

Well here’s how this particular one played out. Having decided to continue on my path to enlightenment in Renaissance techs, I set about sending out a Caravel while preparing for war. Spies in Persia were improved with the conversion of their border city while their capital has long been a centre for English informant.

The exploration finally uncovered Mali who are a little backward technologically but seem to live on a diet of fish and wine. Their maps and our discussion revealed no further civilisation but a few cheap tech trades allowed me to see if Cyrus acquired the key tech of Feudalism. While I would have loved to trade maps with Mali, I felt the price they were offering was far below what we would expect in return for thousands of years of exploration.

To cut a long story short, Cyrus acquired Feudalism a few turns before my earliest date for conflict. A few turns later, I would have a caravel available to contest the waters with Persia and hostilities could commence.

Around 5 macemen and three cats moved next to Arbela to challenge two archers and one spearmen. Hardly even worth bombarding really and I moved in after one round. The cost of waiting could have been high if that city defender archer had been converted to a longbowman yet I still managed to lose one macemen to a non-promoted archer. Three buildings in Arbela were left undamaged, my civic cost leapt 60%.

My caravel also sunk a Persian galley containing two swordsmen so it seems that Cyrus is being rather careless with his armies. Either that or he felt that the swordsmen were safer there than in his capital

One group of elephants did actually attack my macemen across a river and the beast won. I had hoped to take advantage of defensive terrain to beat them so felt a little cheated by that setback. Two macemen lost already is more than I would have expected to lose in those battles so far but I guess that’s just the luck of the dice.

More elephants will be coming my way from Saladin so I can only hope he too decides to take the short route via the sea lanes. Otherwise, the defensive terrain will have to keep those units safe while they are softening the Persian capital.