Philosophical & Industrious

[MikeH]

I'm sure I've read on this forum before that in play testing Phi/Ind was too powerful so was left out.

[Silver14]

Creative/Organized is the only other trait combo left out from what I can tell. Ever get the feeling we are short two leaders in this game?

[Gherald]

Originally posted by Silver14
Creative/Organized is the only other trait combo left out from what I can tell. Ever get the feeling we are short two leaders in this game?

Nothing like a little beurocracy to foster creativity...

[Silver14]

There is some fairly creative bureaucracy out there.

[Gaal Dornik]

The first thing i looked after, after i read the descriptions was Phi/Ind leader. Luckily i didnt found any. It really should be too powerful.

[Blake]

Cre/Org would actually be a pretty powerful trait combination, since it would allow for "very low cost" expansion, essentially you could get away building just workers, settlers and lighthouses, spamming cottages. Later add in some cheap courthouses.

Usually expenses, the need to raise culture, and barbarians create a drag on growth. Organized and creative alleviate all of those. I'm not sure it'd be any more powerful than cre/fin (catherine) though.

[Common Sensei]

Originally posted by Blake
Cre/Org would actually be a pretty powerful trait combination, since it would allow for "very low cost" expansion, essentially you could get away building just workers, settlers and lighthouses, spamming cottages. Later add in some cheap courthouses.

Usually expenses, the need to raise culture, and barbarians create a drag on growth. Organized and creative alleviate all of those. I'm not sure it'd be any more powerful than cre/fin (catherine) though.

I think it would be a great warmongering combo even with the absence of Aggressive.

[GeoModder]

Oh, it is a powerfull combination. A creator made the Sumerian civ with that combo and I played a few times with it. Barely had to worry about city maintenance and culture war is a piece of cake with it.

[Shaka II]

Originally posted by Silver14
It is just an assumption that Phi/Ind combo was left out because it is too powerful. If Fin/Org was left out people would probably make the same assumption about it. I’d be surprised if Phi/Ind didn’t show up as a trait combo in the expansion. It would be nice if Sirian or someone from Firaxis could state that Phi/Ind was left out due to balance issues if that is the case.

Reading the interview with Soren Johnson, he says that industrious/philosophical was too strong. He mentions that Aeson had generated 30-40 great people. It's a classic positive feedback system. Having Aeson play test this was a good idea.

Organized/financial is very strong, but not overpowered. Washington does consistently well in the game. Not all the time, but on the average he does.

[LordShiva]

He doesn't do so well when he's under my tanks...

[Shaka II]

It's very situational. I've wiped Washington out early with axemen and war elephants, and have seen him eliminated early in another game by an aggressive civ, but he does well overall. Roosevelt is doing well in the present game, but Ghengis' army is unbelievable. I do what he says, for now anyway.

[Solomwi]

Silver... I know about the edit ability, but really just wanted to generate some discussion on the combo, both from those just speculating and those who may have tried it. Thanks for the mod link.

Blake... good point on Cre/Org. Not quite as immediately obvious, but the more I think about this one, the better it looks. I can't think of a better combination for making newly conquered cities productive ASAP.

[Solver]

Reading the interview with Soren Johnson, he says that industrious/philosophical was too strong. He mentions that Aeson had generated 30-40 great people. It's a classic positive feedback system. Having Aeson play test this was a good idea.

Having Aeson playtest Deity also proved to be a very good idea .

But really, with the Phi/Ind combo, it would be no challenge getting GPs. All you need then is to adopt a peaceful stance and you can push your way to victory all the way with GPs. Grab the Parthenon and later go Pacifism, and the GP rate goes through the roof. Not to mention the horror if you have Stone or Marble near you, then you can grab all the early wonders!!

[One_more_turn]

Phi/Ind civs would have a lock on wonders construction.

[Hauptman]

Build Pyramids in half the time. Creat great engineer in half the time. Rushbuy next wonder and continue. Yeh. a little too good.


There was another combo I wanted to use, dug through the list and didnt find it. but it escapes me now.

As it stands for traits its Phi/fi elizebeth or Spi/Phi saladin (Sali al-Hadin). But man I have so much fun with Tokagawa's UU.