Who misses the Privateer?

[Solver]

Well, I wouldn't want them to have Tanks, but harder Barb navies are appropriate IMO.

[Rancidlunchmeat]

I have to agree with Willem, here. The Barbs are tough enough in my book for the vast majority of the game. Them having higher end techs doesn't really matter, because by that point.. the Barbs shouldn't really have much of an influence unless you're playing Terra and by that time, they'll have nicely fortified cities full of riflemen.

The only thing I can think of for people wanted tougher Barbs is because they aren't playing on large enough maps, so there's not enough spawning areas for them.

Play on some huge maps and the Barbs will constantly be far more than just a pain.. they'll be deadly, at least all the way to gunpowder, if not beyond on any decent difficulty level... without checking raging barbarians.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Solver
Well, I wouldn't want them to have Tanks, but harder Barb navies are appropriate IMO.

I rarely even see a Barb naval unit so I don't think it would matter that much. I might encounter 1 or 2 per game, hardly enough to justify beefing them up.

[MattPilot]

Anybody know where in the XML files one modifies what barb units appear and in what % ?

On my current game (terra, normal size), the barbs only had 1 ship, and it was trapped in a iced in zone. For the rest of the game, they never built or spawned any ships besides that one. It took a submarine to get to and kill it.

[Arrian]

I could see playing with Barb Caravels & Frigates... no more than that.

-Arrian

p.s. I liked the Privateer. It was a little weak, but it could (upon victory) spawn more privateers. If you ran around with packs of them (3-4 to a group), you could do bad, bad things to AI civs that were using galleons & frigates. I even used such a stack to take out a few ironclads.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Originally posted by Arrian
p.s. I liked the Privateer. It was a little weak, but it could (upon victory) spawn more privateers. If you ran around with packs of them (3-4 to a group), you could do bad, bad things to AI civs that were using galleons & frigates. I even used such a stack to take out a few ironclads.

Stacks of 10 or so were quite fun in PBEMs....

[MasterDave]

I like the privateer unit that can prey on other AI's or players while at peace, it is just fun. The best example of these in a Sid game were the privateers from Colonizaion, who would kick down a share of their plunder to the player when they took a ship.

Privateers in Colonization were not as strong as Frigates or Ships of the Line, but were stronger than their merchant targets, so it created an interesting cat and mouse dynamic. I thought that the privateers in Civ3 were a little bit too weak, as they were really only capable of beating up galleys or caravels on a regular basis, and would usually lose to galleons or Frigates.

I think that the ideal privateer in Civ4 would be more like the colonization privateers: attackable by everyone, and slightly stronger than their main prey, but weaker than regular navy units that pursue them (frigates). I would make them Strength 5 or 6, with the ability to grant a random amount of gold (perhaps using the same range as a goody hut) if they sink an enemy ship. Controlling a few pirates during an otherwise peaceful early industrial era would definitely add some flavor and fun to that part of the game.

[Addled Platypus]

hmmmm......barbarian subs

privateer its a good thing

thank you Solver

[Arrian]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx


Stacks of 10 or so were quite fun in PBEMs....

Heh. IIRC, they got a defensive first strike, so they were actually decent when defending so long as they were in a stack.

Overall, sure, there were more efficient ways to spend your shields. But they *were* fun, once you accepted their limitations.

-Arrian

[Solver]

I have to agree with Willem, here. The Barbs are tough enough in my book for the vast majority of the game. Them having higher end techs doesn't really matter, because by that point.. the Barbs shouldn't really have much of an influence unless you're playing Terra and by that time, they'll have nicely fortified cities full of riflemen.

The only thing I can think of for people wanted tougher Barbs is because they aren't playing on large enough maps, so there's not enough spawning areas for them.

Good point, but 95% of the time, Barbs should simply require you to adjust your strategy appropriately, build more defenses, etc. They are very, very rarely a real threat that can kill you, even on the bigger maps.

[Unimatrix11]

i just want to say a big 'oh yes' to master dave's ideas and suggestions

[johnmcd]

Originally posted by Unimatrix11
i just want to say a big 'oh yes' to master dave's ideas and suggestions

Yep, I'd install that mod.

[LordShiva]

Pirates would be cool. But you should be able to get gold from them.

[Destroyer]

There is a much more practical use for Privateers.

But I was to say that I like the idea rather than the Civ 3 unit. You should be able to build a certain number of "black" units of any kind, and use them to attack as mercs, or harrass an enemies expansion after Barbs become irelevant.


The main use for Privateers I was thinking of is keeping another Civ off your landmass, as it is difficult to expand and fill it early in the game. If you can sink settlers before they hit land, then you can keep the people living on your island genetically pure (actually I havent noticed if workers or population have nationality in Civ4).

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Rancidlunchmeat
Play on some huge maps and the Barbs will constantly be far more than just a pain.. they'll be deadly, at least all the way to gunpowder, if not beyond on any decent difficulty level... without checking raging barbarians.

Play marathon games on bigger maps that have lots of land, with raging barbarians on, with less than normal number of civilizations.

If that's not tough enough, modify the game info XML files so no civs have any advantage over barbarians.