More Unique than the Next Civ!

[Badtz Maru]

Originally posted by CyberShy


You can't build units with bear strength at the beginning of the game (3)
You can't build unites as fast as panthers at the beginning of the game (2)

If your civ starts with hunting you can build scouts. You might even start with one.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Badtz Maru


If your civ starts with hunting you can build scouts. You might even start with one.

They're no match for a Bear unless you're on a Wooded Hill, or get extremely lucky. Scouts only have a strength of 1 and 100% against animals. In most cases, that's not enough to take on a Bear. Even on a wooded hill there's a good chance they're dead meat, unless they've had a Woodsman promotions or two.

[Badtz Maru]

A bear doesn't have a speed of 2, either. A Scout has a chance against any of the fast animals, Bears are easily avoided and can be handled by a Warrior. On most difficulty settings, a Scout on a forested hill shouldn't have a problem with a bear. I know on Noble the player gets a significant boost against all barbarian units...I just checked, you have 40% bonus on Noble, you have to go to Deity to NOT have at least a 5% bonus vs. animals.

The 40% bonus that Scouts get on Noble means that a fortified Scout on a plain should beat a Bear most of the time. Add any other factors (river crossing, hills, woods, jungle) and the Scout has no problem.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Badtz Maru
The 40% bonus that Scouts get on Noble means that a fortified Scout on a plain should beat a Bear most of the time. Add any other factors (river crossing, hills, woods, jungle) and the Scout has no problem.

"Should" is much different than actually does. I play on Noble and if my Scout gets hit by a Bear on flat ground, it's generally done for. Sometimes it gets lucky but not very often. Only on Hills or Forest does it stand a chance.

[Badtz Maru]

Originally posted by Willem


"Should" is much different than actually does. I play on Noble and if my Scout gets hit by a Bear on flat ground, it's generally done for. Sometimes it gets lucky but not very often. Only on Hills or Forest does it stand a chance.

Well, you would need to be fortified for a few turns to have better than 50/50 odds. Bear will kill a scout most of the time if it has only fortified one turn - 2*1.45 = 2.9, and a .1 difference means a lot.

I think Scouts should have a high withdrawal percentage, at least against animals...stands to reason that most skilled woodsmen were usually able to pick their battles when it came to wildlife, while barbarians in force would be a different story.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Badtz Maru
Well, you would need to be fortified for a few turns to have better than 50/50 odds. Bear will kill a scout most of the time if it has only fortified one turn - 2*1.45 = 2.9, and a .1 difference means a lot.

If I'm encountering a Bear on flat ground, it means that I don't even have time to fortify as it's caught me by surprise. I generally steer away from them unless they just happen to appear after uncovering a tile. In which case there's nothing I can do about except hope that it doesn't attack.

[LordShiva]

I think it's stupid that any military unit, even a scout, can lose to an animal. Especially bears and panthers, which are solitary.

[Willem]

Originally posted by LordShiva
I think it's stupid that any military unit, even a scout, can lose to an animal. Especially bears and panthers, which are solitary.

It's a game, not reality. It's meant to add some flavour, not represent historical realism.

[LordShiva]

There should be barb Giant Squid units that sink your galleys. Calamari has flavour.

[DrSpike]

No, the ripieni con sarde upgrade gives me +50% against squid, they pose no threat.

[Axxaer]

Originally posted by LordShiva
There should be barb Giant Squid units that sink your galleys. Calamari has flavour.

Isle of the Deep!

[Ray Radlein]

Originally posted by LordShiva
There should be barb Giant Squid units that sink your galleys. Calamari has flavour.

Best. Suggestion. EVER.

In the middle of an ocean somewhere lies the Barbarian city of R'lyeh, from which the elite Barbarian squid units emerge to sink your galleys AND DEVOUR YOUR SANITY.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Paxman
According to our history books, it was the so-called 'barbarian' tribes that eventually sacked Rome and vanquished the western Roman Empire.

These tribes (Visigoths, Ostrogoths and Vandals) were not barbarian at all, but were labeled so by the Romans. An example of their exquisite and fine artmanship still stand today as the gothic cathedrals in Europe.

All these 3 tribes came from the far northern reaches of Europe, today called Scandinavia. Visigoths (=Vest g�ter), Otrogoths (=�st g�ter) and Vandals were mostly Norwegians, Swedes and Danes.

So.. don't tell me "that's the way barbarians are" - read history and you'll see that the barbarians were powerful nations that more often than not were able to overthrow their so-called 'civilized' opressors.

Did you even READ my post. Let me highlight:

[q=Imran]It's done for gameplay[/q]

Have you ever seen any barbarians in the Civ series that we supposed to be as powerful as any Civ? NO! Why? Because they are supposed to be just an obstacle. That is the way barbarians are!

[Axxaer]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
No (that's my feedback ).

Barbarians are meant to be a obstacle, not another civ you have constant war with.

Originally posted by Axxaer
Do you have any reason for this other than because?

What I mean is, why should barbarians only be a small obstable and not an actual challenge? I know civ isn't a historical simulator, but barbarians were for a long time more than just an obstacle and several large empires were constantly at war with them.

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Have you ever seen any barbarians in the Civ series that we supposed to be as powerful as any Civ? NO! Why? Because they are supposed to be just an obstacle. That is the way barbarians are!

You: Barbarians are meant to be an obstacle
Me: Why?
You: Because they're meant to be an obstable

I bow down before your superior reasoning skills

[Imran Siddiqui]

You've misinterpreted the entire discussion to suit your needs

I'll point to your response:

why should barbarians only be a small obstable

So it's more like:

Me: Barbarians are meant to be an obstacle.
You: Yes, I know. Why aren't they not just an obstacle...

To which I responded with:

It's done for gameplay. If they got even more powerful, I'd be likely to simply turn them off. It wouldn't be worth the bother.

So... mind not throwing around strawmen and actually refer to the responses to you .


If you wanted an answer why they are meant to be obstacle (even though you admited they were one), I'd say:

Its quite obvious that they are meant to simply be an obstacle. As I pointed out, have you seen any barbarians that are as powerful as other Civs? You can't do diplomacy with them, you can't trade with them. They are there to get in your way so you don't expand too fast.

Why else are they there?


My reasoning PWNS JOO!