America & religion

[MrPhil]

Originally posted by Willem


It's only available with the 1.52 patch. If you haven't got it yet, I'd recommend you do. It contains some performance improvements so your game should run better. Be warned though, some people have reported issues they didn't have before.

As for Marathon, it has a whopping 1200 turns, the longest of any civ game ever. It's not for the faint of heart.

1200 Turns!!! Love it!

I want more, more!!

[Willem]

Originally posted by MrPhil


1200 Turns!!! Love it!

I want more, more!!

Keep in mind though that techs take longer to research and units/buildings take longer to build. So it works out like a normal game in the end. As I understand it though, the game is 3 times as long as Normal roughly, but build times are only twice as long. So you can concievably build up a substantial army in that setting. Good luck being able to afford upgrading them though.

[MrPhil]

Originally posted by Willem


Keep in mind though that techs take longer to research and units/buildings take longer to build. So it works out like a normal game in the end. As I understand it though, the game is 3 times as long as Normal roughly, but build times are only twice as long. So you can concievably build up a substantial army in that setting. Good luck being able to afford upgrading them though.

Well, crap!

Thanks for telling me this before I invested a bunch of time in it with false hopes. What I am really looking for is plenty of time to roam the planet with my tanks, planes, infantry and SEALs.

The first game I played on pretty much default levels didn't leave me much time to rumble with all the modern miltary equipment.

[devincutler]

I don't see what the problem is. Marathon let's you do just that, roam around the countryside with any given tech level of military units and actually use them before they become obsolete.

Marathon rocks.

Devin

[Leifmk]

Originally posted by MrPhil


Well, crap!

Thanks for telling me this before I invested a bunch of time in it with false hopes. What I am really looking for is plenty of time to roam the planet with my tanks, planes, infantry and SEALs.

Well, but that's exactly what it will get you.

Research/build/growth etc. times and costs for everything is three times as many turns as in a normal game, except units which are only twice as expensive. So relative to the length of the game your armies can move and fight and heal three times as often. So you can have the time to fight entire long wars at one level of technology.

[CBR1100]

I get the feeling some of you havn't tried playing a game at Emperor level.
Firstly you cannot survive without religion playing Emperor. I seem to remember reading that the AI gets a head start on the higher levels and that makes sence because by the time I meet the other civs they are well ahead of me but after a while I can hold my position but you need religion to close the gap.
Secondly if you set out with the intension of kicking the AI's ass early on your in for a shock. By the time you can get a few axe men together and head for your rival they'll probably be met by Grenagears.

The only way to win is to accept the fact the for most of the game your going to be behind (and early on well last) in the tech race and concentrate on losing the gap quick enough to sneak a win with copious amouts of luck and some sneaky tricks with spys and diplomacy.

BTW I did mange to get religion in the end. After a dozen tries I knew the exact date that Confusionism would be discovered by the AI so bee lined for it while limiting my development to only what was absolutely neccessery. I also cheated a bit with the scout/native villiage reloads to get me the essential early techs without having to research them. Even then I only got there by one turn. Now I'm about 200 points behind the last placed civ but gaining fast. Time will tell if it's fast enough.

[devincutler]

I have no idea what you are talking about. I play Noble all the time and I have no problem keeping up tech-wise and usually taking a lead.

And no, you do not NEED religion, though it helps greatly.

I usually play Large or Huge maps, with 1-2 extra civs. My standard strategy is to head directly for Hinduism, whether I start with Mysticism or not. I get Hinduism in about 95% of the games I play if I go stright to Mysticism and then Polytheism.

I then build up my tile improvement techs, in an order that depends on what specials are near me. Depending on the potential barbarian situation (are there other civs near me, am I next to the frozen wastes?) I will then either suffice with archers or try to get either horse archers or axemen.

Meanwhile, I will string in Priesthood early, timed for the below.

Once I have 3 cities, I will have my capital build Stonehenge. This for a culture push (which helps against barbarians too) and to see where I am on the world map. I get Stonehenge about 50% of the time if I don't have stone, 100% if I do.

Directly after Stonehenge, I will have my capital build the Oracle. This gets me a very important tech boost and sets off, shortly thereafter, a Great Prophet. Once I have a Great Prophet and build my religion's shrine, my money worries are basically over for the rest of the game and I can start to expand my empire by conquest or founding new cities.

In any event, the point of the above is that, by using this strategy on Noble, I am usually right at the top of the tech race or in the top 3.

Devin

[CBR1100]

Originally posted by devincutler
I have no idea what you are talking about. Devin

Yeah I'm not surprised. I'm talking bollox. It's not Noble. I'm getting the levels mixed up. It's the third from to top....Emperor I think. Anyway I'd beter edit my post.

[Dry]

Originally posted by Leifmk
Research/build/growth etc. times and costs for everything is three times as many turns as in a normal game, except units which are only twice as expensive.

And also:
- anarchy for 1 civic is still 1 turn and you cannot switch again before the same 4 turns, making the spiritual traits a little bit less interesting (very little bit).
- I'm not sure, but I iirc, the golden age did last 'only' 16 turns .

[Shaka II]

Originally posted by CBR1100
I get the feeling some of you havn't tried playing a game at Emperor level.
Firstly you cannot survive without religion playing Emperor. I seem to remember reading that the AI gets a head start on the higher levels and that makes sence because by the time I meet the other civs they are well ahead of me but after a while I can hold my position but you need religion to close the gap.
Secondly if you set out with the intension of kicking the AI's as early on your in for a shock. By the time you can get a few axe men together and head for your rival they'll probably be met by Grenagears.

The only way to win is to accept the fact the for most of the game your going to be behind (and early on well last) in the tech race and concentrate on losing the gap quick enough to sneak a win with copious amouts of luck and some sneaky tricks with spys and diplomacy.

BTW I did mange to get religion in the end. After a dozen tries I knew the exact date that Confusionism would be discovered by the AI so bee lined for it while limiting my development to only what was absolutely neccessery. I also cheated a bit with the scout/native villiage reloads to get me the essential early techs without having to research them. Even then I only got there by one turn. Now I'm about 200 points behind the last placed civ but gaining fast. Time will tell if it's fast enough.

Yes, you do start behind. Get used to emperor.

I think on emperor or above, not that I play above, it's necessary, if you want to found a religion, to have some clear strats and tech paths to do so. Code of laws/Confucianism is one of the more likely religions to found, and there are a few key ways to make it there. Likewise Monotheism/Judaism is possible too. Meditation/Buddhism or Polythiesm/Hinduism are less likely, even with mysticism as a starting tech. I would suggest taking a good look at the capital to assess the gold supply to see if it's going to be a high probability of getting an early religion.

I've only founded a religion once, by accident when researching code of law, partly because I didn't trade alphabet until civil service, but I also had a great starting position in Rome.

I have a similar problem getting religion, not founding it, just getting it period. So, building roads to your neighbors will get you some religions along with trade. This can be difficult on barb fierce maps like highlands, but that's usually the way religion gets to my empire. It really isn't that important in the early game. if you like to play domination type games, you will be the owner of holy cities later in the game.

Rather than go for religion, I go for monarchy for hereditary rule to keep my civ happy and large, and alphabet to have a breif monopoly on tech trading, ultimately trading it for the other techs.

So I think before you start, probably before you even pick a civ to be, decide whether you plan to pursue founding a religion.

[Willem]

Originally posted by MrPhil


Well, crap!

Thanks for telling me this before I invested a bunch of time in it with false hopes. What I am really looking for is plenty of time to roam the planet with my tanks, planes, infantry and SEALs.

The first game I played on pretty much default levels didn't leave me much time to rumble with all the modern miltary equipment.

You know, what you could do is start the game earlier than 4000 BC, say by a hundred years or so. That would give you more time at the end to play with your new toys.

You'll find the start date in Assets/XML/GlobalDefines.xml.

[MightyTiny]

Originally posted by Dry

And also:
- anarchy for 1 civic is still 1 turn and you cannot switch again before the same 4 turns, making the spiritual traits a little bit less interesting (very little bit).

I think this is incorrect - in marathon anarchy lasts (at least for me!) 3 turns for a single civ change, and switching several civics at once can really hurt you, for example when someone declares war on you and you suddenly need to switch to theocracy+vassalage when you would REALLY want to be using those turns to produce military units in your cities.

For this reason, for me at least, the spiritual trait has become very much more attractive in marathon games; it's significant advantage.

[MrPhil]

Originally posted by Leifmk


Well, but that's exactly what it will get you.

Research/build/growth etc. times and costs for everything is three times as many turns as in a normal game, except units which are only twice as expensive. So relative to the length of the game your armies can move and fight and heal three times as often. So you can have the time to fight entire long wars at one level of technology.

Oh, ok. All is well then.........thanks for setting me straight!

[MrPhil]

Originally posted by Willem


You know, what you could do is start the game earlier than 4000 BC, say by a hundred years or so. That would give you more time at the end to play with your new toys.

You'll find the start date in Assets/XML/GlobalDefines.xml.

Are you talking about applying a MOD or editing the code?

[Willem]

Originally posted by MrPhil


Are you talking about applying a MOD or editing the code?

Editing the XML file that sets many of the conditions. I guess you can call it code I suppose. But you'd essentially be doing both too. Just copy the file to your Custom Assets folder then change that entry and the game will alway start at the date you select. If you begin at 4100 BC instead of 4000 BC, that gives you an extra 100 years at the end. Very simple to do, all you need is Notepad.

But then you might have to change the total number of turns as well, adding an extra 100. It's doable though I don't know which file it's in right now.