Consider the caravel

[Två blå bananer]

Isn´t it silly that they cannot carry troops?

I mean, come on! besides the trireme, that cannot enter ocean squares, there are NO troop transports in the game until the galleon comes around when you develop astronomy.

OK, I admit that I´m neither a naval historian, nor, for that part, particulary interested in naval history prior to the steamship era, so I honestly don´t know that they REALLY could, but for reasons of gameplay I believe that caravels should be capable of ferrying troops as welll as explorers.

I mean, it´s REALLY frustrating to find yourself stuck on an island that has room for maybe five to seven cities, and with no other land within reach for the trireme. This has, so far, happened to me twice. (I play with the "Continents" setting.)

[MasterDave]

I am not sure why the decision was made not to allow ocean going transports until so late in the tech tree. This is definitely a departure from earlier civs (Navigation in civ3 comes way earlier in the tree than astronomy).

I sort of like it in a sense, though, because game AI's have a hard time carrying out seaborne invasions, and in earlier civs it was a little too easy to invade other civ's lands with little fear of an invasion coming back to you. With oceangoing transport not coming until later in the tech tree, there is less time to exploit this weakness in the AI.

Another plus is that you have more of a chance to grab unoccupied islands before the AI gets there on a continents map if you focus on rushing to astronomy after having discovered an island with your caravels and explorers.

[petermarkab]

they are able to enter enemy waters without an Open Borders agreement. It would be sneaky if you were allowed to carry troops on a caravel. Also, I don't know about you but i'm aeons away from mustering an invasion force when caravels become available, and i'm a really good player!

[LordShiva]

Still, you should be able to build cities on other islands or continents, or on your continent outside your closed borders. It's not like that would be ahistorical.

[Urban Ranger]

You can use galleys if the other islands and continents are close.

[chequita guevara]

Historically, though, the Europeans did use caravels to carry out invasions. Galleys, however, tended to kick caravel ass until roughly the late 16th Century, when they were replaced by the galleass (?), which is why they were only used in places galleys didn't do well, like the open ocean (with the exception of longships). The New World was conquered with caravels.

[MikeH]

If there was a Viking civ added in an expansion the longship would be a really cool Unique Unit.

Not sure if allowing one civ an early ocean crossing unit would be overpowered or not but it would be cool.

[johnmcd]

I don’t mind the tech requirements really, it just seems incredibly expensive to build a big enough fleet to carry the troops you actually need, especially if it’s much distance at all and therefore can’t ferry effectively.

I feel the galley could be replaced by something with identical stats that costs half as much by Compass or something.

Also, a pirate flourish of barb caravels would be interesting, there is no doubt that pirates have had a huge influence on trade and settlement in the early years of colonisation and beyond.

[proviisori]

Originally posted by MikeH
If there was a Viking civ added in an expansion the longship would be a really cool Unique Unit.

Not sure if allowing one civ an early ocean crossing unit would be overpowered or not but it would be cool.

and it would be historically accurate. Vikings were the first ones to cross from Europe to North America years before Columbus.

[johnmcd]

They island hopped though, Norway to Orkney, Orkney to Iceland, Iceland to Greenland, Greenland to Vinland. There is an argument they used cultural borders to cross single ocean tiles rather than actually crossing several ocean tiles in a oner.

No doubt in my mind that Norsemen did reach the Americas but I would question whether it was done through true ocean travel or on reliable ocean going boats. Only half the colonists that set out from Iceland from Greenland made it there after all.

[MikeH]

Maybe it would have some limit on range from shore or a "chance of dying" in open ocean squares.

[samspock]

Either give galleys the ability to cross ocean as long as they can end their turn on a coast or let caravels carry settlers or both. I don't bother building galleys since I play continents and rarely see any close by islands.

[zombielordzero]

honestly, (real world) the roman trimline carried legions from italy to carthage without much trouble with a stopover at sicily. the ideal transport cargo limits should be:

work boat: 1
caravel: 2
galley:3
galleon:4
transport:6

[johnmcd]

I'd put transport up to eight personally.

[zombielordzero]

well my orginal numbers where higher, but i lowered them because they seemed out-of-touch (aka civ2 units):

work boat: 1
trimeline:2 (i forgot this isnt in civ4)
caravel: 4
galley:6
galleon:10
transport:14