Is it me, or are the maceman carrying...

[Rook]

Flails?

I don't claim to be an expert on weapons, but as I have played many RPG's, I have come to know the difference.

A mace is a heavy ball or flange on the end of a stick. Sometimes with spikes, sometimes not. Maces do not have chains.

Flails are iron balls, or rods on the end of a chain attached to a stick. Sometimes a short pole is used. They are also called holy water sprinklers.

A morning star is a spiked ball on the end of a chain and short handle. Also called a ball and chain.

Any experts out there?

[MightyTiny]

Haven't thought about it, but now that you mention it, I think you're right! They should be "flail men"

Should have spotted that myself, I've played enough RPG's in my time....

[Cort Haus]

Could be quite an observation you've made there, Rook. I must zoom in for a look next time. If so, we should mercilessly call them 'Flailers' until the graphic is corrected.

[gilfan]

I think this is an "all pistols are guns but not all guns are pistols" kinda thing. I believe mace can refer both to a specific melee weapon as well as a class of weapons

[DrSpike]

It's a ball and chain mace, like a Morningstar, and thus it's fine I think.

Perhaps the reality brigade will turn up and comment - it might keep them out of the game balance threads.

[Hauptman]

Naw he's right... its a flail...

Maces are rigid "sticks"

[DrSpike]

Nope. I was right.

The term mace is also applied to other weapons.

http://members.aol.com/dargolyt/TheForge/mornstar.htm

[Rook]

Well I did some searching around the net too and I found a few entries describing a ball and chain mace like Dr Spike did. So technically, you could say "maceman" will fit. But, its not really an accurate description from what I found. A ball and chain is a ball and chain. That's the common name for it. A mace is a mace.

I say we don't let this rest. Those little digital men deserve better! They are FLAILmen or Flailers Damn it. We need to start a campain to give them the proper recognition they deserve. Would knights stand by and do nothing if they were refered to as armored horse riders? Would musketeers allow themselves to be called gunmen? No way! We need to stand together on this and I, the Rook, will lead us to VICTORY!!!

[Rook]

I just thought about why the name maceman doesn't really fit on a serious note.

A mace and a flail have basically the same function. They are meant to crush with their heavy ends. The flail takes this one step further. The chain gives the weapon extra length and it allows you to attack over and around your opponents sheild. A mace on a stick can't do that. That's why there needs to be some kind of separation between the two terms. Since Firaxis gives macemen a bonus against melee units, it leads me to believe they had taken the flail's unique abilities into account. Therefore, the graphic is correct, but the name is wrong.

[MattPilot]

http://www.ancient-empires.com/weapofem.html

They have an image of a "mace" that corresponds to the weapon we have in game.

I guess the "ancient" experts don't quite agree themselves

[-Ab-]

you said flange...
ahur hur hur ahur

[TheHateMale]

'Holy Water Sprinkler' = Diablo 2, or was it used elsewhere?

\Not a history buff.

[Rook]

Originally posted by TheHateMale
'Holy Water Sprinkler' = Diablo 2, or was it used elsewhere?

\Not a history buff.

Yes, that's an actual name for the weapon, because it looks like the thing priests uses to sprinkle holy water. I guess it's kind of a dark age slang.


OK, I am doing some more research. I'm loading 1.52 on my dial-up modem, and I'm bored, so I have nothing better to do. Anyway, the internet is a bad place to do research I am finding. There are so many RPG sites and people who sell weapons. None of these can really be considered good reference material. However, i did find some entries in the wikepedia online encyclopedia.

Read the entry for Mace here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mace#History_of_the_mace

and the entry for flails here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flail_%28weapon%29

The information backs up what I have been saying and even states that there is often confusion that flails are sometimes mislabled as maces.

Also, it says... "The term "flail" comes from the motion of the weapon, and was actually given first to a farming implement used to separate wheat from chaff."

[Rook]

OK, funny and strange at the same time. I finished loading 1.52 and loaded a new game, on a whim, I decided to see what the Civilepdia entry for Maceman said.

It describes the mace as a wooden shaft with a heavy metal end sometimes with spikes etc. It never once mentions a chain.

Case is closed. The Maceman needs to be changed to Flailman. All entries in game need to be fixed, and the manuals are gonna have to be reprinted and sent out to everyone who has purchased the game. For me, I expect Firaxis to send me a free copy of all Civ 4 expansions and I also expect to be part of the design and fact checking team for Civ 5... paid of course.

Sid are you reading this?

[cqdemal]

I want a Flailing Man unit. Must be cute.