Is it me, or are the maceman carrying...

[Trifna]

I want a Flailing Woman unit. Must be cuter.

[pauli]

fixing the mace would be a good mod project.

A mace and a flail have basically the same function. They are meant to crush with their heavy ends. The flail takes this one step further. The chain gives the weapon extra length and it allows you to attack over and around your opponents sheild. A mace on a stick can't do that. That's why there needs to be some kind of separation between the two terms. Since Firaxis gives macemen a bonus against melee units, it leads me to believe they had taken the flail's unique abilities into account. Therefore, the graphic is correct, but the name is wrong.

a chain may allow one to strike around things or entagle targets, but a rigid shaft provides for significantly more power. the mace rose to popularity because armor was the medival equivalent of soda cans - and we have a genetic predisposition towards crushing soda cans.

fortunately for people inclined to wear armor, we have since learned that it's easier once the can is empty.

[mimi]

Originally posted by pauli

a chain may allow one to strike around things or entagle targets, but a rigid shaft provides for significantly more power.

Hmmm....

hahahahahahaha....

[rjwoer]

Yes, some maces had chains attached to smaller spiked balls. It is legitimate (Thanks, History Channel).

[SpencerH]

Lets get on track here dammit. It's a bogus upgrade unit so who cares that they also misnamed it. Lets get rid of it instead (or use it as a UU).

[Provost Harrison]

If we're going to be accurate, shouldn't they be carrying a little cannister of pepperspray?

[DrSpike]

Somehow I think a big chap carrying around one of those ball and chain maces is going to be more scary than a guy with a can of spray.

[MightyTiny]

Originally posted by pauli
fixing the mace would be a good mod project.

a chain may allow one to strike around things or entagle targets, but a rigid shaft provides for significantly more power.

Hmm... are you sure about that? It seems to me that the ball being at the end of a chain would allow for a much longer arch for the ball to travel when you swing it, which would translate to a higher speed, more inertia, and thus more damage.

[pauli]

consider what happens on impact.

with a ball and chain, you transfer whatever momentum is carried in the ball, and... that's it.

with a mace, you deliver the momentum contained in the weapon, and continue to apply muscle power. there is follow through.

a ball and chain can carry a great amount of energy, no doubt - look at a wrecking ball. but it requires a huge amount of telegraphed setup. a mace is going to crush the tin can knight in front of you long before a ball and chain is ready to strike, and it's probably going to take fewer hits to do it.

[Rook]

Hey! My Flail can beat up your mace any day!

Really, I have become somewhat of an expert... well I'm more knowledgable about... maces and flails since I started this thread.

Overall, the mace would have to be the winner in a pracical sense. For one, a simple mace is nothing more than a metal ball on the end of a stick. Put some spkies on it, and you can arm an army very cheaply. The flail, on the other hand, takes a bit more work to make adding the extra chain and all. Still it is better than having to make all your men swords.

I think the argument about the force of a mace hit versus a flail is valid, however the extra reach of a flail cant be just poo pooed. What is the point of a good solid hit, if it could be deflected by a stout shield. Now if you can get around the shield and still land a decent hit, then that says something.

From what I have read though, the flail is a bit unwieldy making it not so good on the defense. For this, the mace should get top honors as the footman's best weapon. Cheap, but effective.

The Civ 4 unit should be changed. Make it the same power as a swordman. Take away the bonus versus melee, but give it a cheaper hammer cost. Oh and change the graphic and take away the fail.

Oh and for the guy who made the joke about the pepper spray. You should be ashamed of yourself for making light of this very serious matter concerning an injustice to the historical accuracy of the game



Rook

[Bill3000]

Originally posted by SpencerH
Lets get on track here dammit. It's a bogus upgrade unit so who cares that they also misnamed it. Lets get rid of it instead (or use it as a UU).

50% to other melee units not good for you?

[Rook]

[Hauptman]

No no no no... Dont go changing units str and what not.

A game maceman is better than the ingame swordsman because the maceman is armored and better trained... Them swordsmen wear leather tunics!~

Now as far as a name change, i suppose i can live with "macemen" as it is only sematics. Mideval infantry from civ3 was more true to form but a bit long winded.


And does it really matter cause it's all about them samurai anyways.

[Axxaer]

Originally posted by Hauptman
No no no no... Dont go changing units str and what not.

A game maceman is better than the ingame swordsman because the maceman is armored and better trained... Them swordsmen wear leather tunics!~

Now as far as a name change, i suppose i can live with "macemen" as it is only sematics. Mideval infantry from civ3 was more true to form but a bit long winded.


And does it really matter cause it's all about them samurai anyways.

Who said anything about changing the maceman's strength? (Maybe someone did I wan't reading that closely). And also is the word mideval the same as medieval ?

[Addled Platypus]

someone mod feathers to the end !!


this would be better than sliced bread