The game needs better civ spacing

[Enigma_Nova]

Noble, where the human is supposedly on par with the AI
... though this may explain why I can kick its ass so soundly.

[CerberusIV]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The game needs better civ spacing

Originally posted by Willem

As for the spacing, I just started a new game and had Asoka start 8 squares away from me. If that's not being right on top of each other, I don't know what is. There's barely enough room for one of us to get a city inbetween. It really bugs me when that happens. I just restart the game, because I don't want to play a mad rush for territory/early war type of game. And being that close is exactly what that means.

I tend to agree with you. The game seems a bit erratic on continents. I started one game to find me and 5 civs on one continent (standard map size) and the greeks stranded on an island in the middle of nowhere.

My current game has a 4:3 split but I was lucky. My continent is sort of tadpole shaped. Frederick and I got half the head bit each and the french and chinese are squeezed onto the tail and have suffered accordingly.

If you like a bit of elbow room a standard map will only take maybe 5 civs so that means setting it up as a custom game and omitting 2.

[MightyTiny]

Willem,

For ensured good spacing, make a custom game and try the "Hub" map option. That one has one icy landmass (hub) in the center, with narrow strips of land projecting from it to all directions. The strips end in blobs of land, and there's one of these for each civilization.

Also, I've found that large "great plains" maps tend to have the opponents spread out pretty well; it's an interesting map to play.

[Sirian]

Re: Re: Re: The game needs better civ spacing

Originally posted by Willem
So why can't the civs be spread out a bit more? It's a bit silly to have them all appear on one continent.

The start plots are put where the most/best land is available. If you draw a standard Continents map where 70% of the land is on one land mass, five of the seven civs will start there. Period.


Have you tried my suggestion yet?


- Sirian

[Willem]

Re: Re: Re: Re: The game needs better civ spacing

Originally posted by Sirian


The start plots are put where the most/best land is available. If you draw a standard Continents map where 70% of the land is on one land mass, five of the seven civs will start there. Period.


Have you tried my suggestion yet?


- Sirian

Well no, I don't see how selecting a specific number of continents will prevent the civ clumping. The Continent map is already supposed to be two or more landmasses, so how does going custom remedy the problem? Besides, I've read that the game doesn't remember settings in custom, and I don't really want to to go through the menu all the time.

Yes I'm lazy.

[Willem]

Originally posted by MightyTiny
Willem,

For ensured good spacing, make a custom game and try the "Hub" map option. That one has one icy landmass (hub) in the center, with narrow strips of land projecting from it to all directions. The strips end in blobs of land, and there's one of these for each civilization.

That doesn't sound very interesting. I like to feel that I'm experiencing a little world, not some contrived map.

[Sirian]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The game needs better civ spacing

Originally posted by Willem
I don't see how selecting a specific number of continents will prevent the civ clumping.

That you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there. You are making several assumptions. Rather than have me spend a bunch of time explaining, you can try it. Or... if you would rather continue to suffer, you can do that, too.


- Sirian

[Willem]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The game needs better civ spacing

Originally posted by Sirian


That you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there. You are making several assumptions. Rather than have me spend a bunch of time explaining, you can try it. Or... if you would rather continue to suffer, you can do that, too.


- Sirian

OK, OK, you are the guy who designed it after all. I suppose you know something I don't.

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

[xxFlukexx]

Ya, make him suffer, Sirian! Put his name below Dan Quayle on the scores list, mwahahaha.

Spacing is usually very good on my Pangaea/Balanced games. Rarely someone will get stuck on a small peninsula or around lots of tundra and that'll screw them over. What used to happen to me on Monarch games is that all the AIs would expand but have a brain fart and not expand in one direction like leave Hatty alone and let her expand and grab a huge amount of land. Hasn't hapened to me in awhile though.

Oh yeah and if you want more space, go to custom game and take out an AI or two, and then start a game or four and hit worldbuilder to see if that spacing is better for you. I would first try out Sirian's inital response about Custom # of Continents or Random # of Continents.

[Enigma_Nova]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The game needs better civ spacing

Originally posted by Sirian
That you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there. You are making several assumptions. Rather than have me spend a bunch of time explaining, you can try it. Or... if you would rather continue to suffer, you can do that, too.
- Sirian

Blast, he beat me to it.

[marvinkosh]

The more continents you have, the smaller they are generally in order to fit onto the map, and so fewer Civs will be packed onto each one. You could even start alone on one of the smaller ones if there were few enough Civs.

Custom Continents is only available when you select Custom Game, if I recall correctly.

[Willem]

Well I tried Custom Continents, and it didn't really change anything. I selected two continents, Standard size, and ended up on one with only Alexander for a neighbour. So there were 5 other civs packed into the other one. There was lots of room between us though, we pretty much started from opposite ends.

Interesting map though, there seemed to be alot more fjords, isthmus etc. than the regular ones, plus a small inland sea and a bunch of lakes.

[Willem]

Originally posted by xxFlukexx
Oh yeah and if you want more space, go to custom game and take out an AI or two, and then start a game or four and hit worldbuilder to see if that spacing is better for you.

That's not an option, I want more civs not less. And my main beef is not so much the spacing but the fact I can end up with so many civs on one continent. Although I wasn't at all impressed when it turned out that Asoka had started only 8 squares away from me. That was a bit much. Basically I'd like to see them all spread out over the globe instead of clumped together like I see sometimes.

[TheHateMale]

I had my settler start two squares from the next one a couple of games back, although we were on opposite sides of a bottleneck round a large lake/sea/harbour thingummy. The number of civs was pretty high for the map size though.

[Sirian]

Originally posted by Willem
I selected two continents...

So you still haven't tried my suggestion!

I give up.

Originally posted by Willem
...clumped together like I see sometimes.

SOMETIMES?!? You're complaining like you see it all the time. If there are two continents, the split for a standard sized game is going to be 4-3 or 5-2, and you are acting as if 5-2 is some kind of absurdity. If one of the continents has twice as much land as the other, though, 5-2 is going to happen. That it is only happening "sometimes" (your words) sounds like the maps are behaving the way they are supposed to.

If you add a civ and there are eight civs, many of those 5-2 splits will turn in to 5-3 splits (and some will go to 6-2).

Civ placement is balanced to the continents. Period. It depends on the lands available. If one continent is twice the size of the other, then putting half the civs on the small one and half on the big one gives a HUGE advantage to the ones that are on the bigger one! (That is why it won't happen.)

So you want two perfectly-matched continents every time? There isn't a script that will do that. The scripts are designed to provide variety, not the same exact situation over and over and over again.

Still, you can have what you want, if you can script it for yourself. All the tools and options are there.


Finally, you're now saying that it isn't even about the SPACING, which is the original complaint in the thread.


- Sirian