What is the Best Trait?

[Hauptman]

yeh there where resources all over that map, I'm sure its a feature cause that copper 2 squares from my city didnt get hooked up til indutrialism... and without alot of resources it would be a PITA to get anything done... but sure paid out nice for me. =)

[Velociryx]

If I'm making you and Vel happy, I'm happy

I'm way happy! That's some outstanding writing, and GREAT synopsis of the strengths of the traits!



-=Vel=-

[Aginor]

Originally posted by smbakeresq
It is clear Aginor plays for domination victory only, as his posts are geared towards traits and strategies that support this type.
To each his own.

Actually, I started out playing builder and very quickly realized that in Civ 4 such play doesn't cut it above Prince. That free Worker for the AIs on Monarch is a beast.

While I prefer to sit back, outtech the other side, and win by spaceship (game plays a lot faster that way), realistically I find that this isn't possible at the higher levels. The problem is the 7 on 1 AI late-game tech dogpile, and the best way to address this problem is to eliminate or emasculate AIs. It's fairly easy to maintain a tech lead in a 3v1 situation at Monarch or Emperor.

Can't stress it enough - if you throw enough resources into your military at the right times, your military is by far the most efficient investment of hammers you can possibly make. Your units get better with every additional unit you add to your army, and also grow stronger with every combat that they win and survive.

Hence, aggressive stance. Do unto them before they do unto you, or outtech you.

[Aginor]

Originally posted by Hauptman
Emporer OCC game on a maze map. this shot was taken imediatly AFTER i won the game by a large margin.

I would think that Philo is an automatic on an OCC. You're committed to not getting into fights, so Expansive/Aggressive/are out. Organized is out for obvious reasons. Creative is even softer than usual with just one city to operate on. Spiritual's definitely below Financial and Philo on the priorities list.

That's an interesting looking city. Have to ask - why the Statue? That's a pretty hefty investment for one specialist.

[Hauptman]

Originally posted by Aginor


I would think that Philo is an automatic on an OCC. You're committed to not getting into fights, so Expansive/Aggressive/are out. Organized is out for obvious reasons. Creative is even softer than usual with just one city to operate on. Spiritual's definitely below Financial and Philo on the priorities list.

That's an interesting looking city. Have to ask - why the Statue? That's a pretty hefty investment for one specialist.

Nothing else to do at the time, i was that far ahead on emporer. all that food made lizzy a happy camper. Only 1 war, and it was a very aneimic one from greece. maze maps just hamper the AIs too much i guess.

[Calvin Vu]

I almost always play financial so I guess I would have to vote for financial but I think Philo is a very close second.

I mainly play as builder/tech hoarder at Emperor/Monarch level and standard pangea map. One of the most useful wonders in the game for my style is the Oxford Univerisy which pretty much makes or breaks my tech lead. The biggest problem is the 6 required universities. If I set my most productive cities to build them at the same time right after getting Education then it will make my empire vulnerable to attacks during that period (when the AIs are building up their armies of macemen/elephants/horse archers). If I only build one or two univeristies at a time then it will take forever to get the 6 universities. So, having the cost of the universities cut in half is not just a mater of saving the hammers, but also the time in getting the Oxford university in my science city (and nailing the tech lead for the remainder of the game), and the risk of getting annihilated by an invasion while trying to work on the tech lead.

After I get the Oxford university, then I don't have to worry aboutfalling behind in tech any more and can go for anything, including a domination victory.

BTW, on a standard pangae map, if I expand agressive enough (without going into early wars) then I probably get 6 cities on the average before running out of space Some of those cities are not very productive yet and it's not uncommon for them to take as much as 40-50 turns to build a university. Getting the number of turns cut in half is a big deal to me. I would say "Wow" to anything that can save me 20+ turns in reaching a major milestone. That is even if I take the risk of having all my cities building universities for such a long period of time. If I spread out the buildings of the univerisities then the number of turns saved is even more.

[JackRudd]

Hmmm. So, given the relative uselessness of Agg, Cre, Exp and Org in an OCC game, the best leaders to play it with are:

Qin
Elizabeth
Mansa Musa
Gandhi
Saladin

[uberfish]

I usually play random civs on emperor and I voted financial, the early game boost in terms of getting to the critical techs and being able to afford expansion earlier is huge.

But creative is probably more fun. Besides being able to block AI expansion and claim territory faster, your first few cities end up better positioned which can make them significantly better in the late game, and the bonus culture + super quick theatres are very nice in captured cities as they stop too many people starving so you can get the city productive faster. And while theatres are cheap, they're also something you build in almost every city so you can deal with unrest with culture when necessary, and my big cities usually get colosseums too.

[EternalSpark]

I dunno, I've been trying my hand at Fin and I haven't found it all too appealing. I didnt even make a ton of cash, although I suspect that that may have to do with my civ (didnt get a religion until pretty much every single enemy Civ had another) or my constant discovery of another good resource inevitably outside a base's area.

I re-heee-ly like Creative, though. So much landmass...

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Aginor
Financial is quite good, and it greatly strengthens some of the more fun/exotic early strategies. It helps you in the tech race. It helps you run a larger empire. It doesn't help you get hammers or kill your neighbors. Because it can't do that last thing, and because other civics can do a quality job in tech/empire management, Financial is not overpowered IMO.

If its not overpowered and is just another run of the mill trait, then why is everyone picking it as their favorite? Not because it is fun/exotic, but because it is quite a powerful trait. 80 some people wouldn't pick it because its a gimmick. Its definitely more powerful than the other traits, and the poll shows it clearly.

Nerfing may be inevitable.

[Aginor]

Originally posted by OzzyKP


If its not overpowered and is just another run of the mill trait, then why is everyone picking it as their favorite? Not because it is fun/exotic, but because it is quite a powerful trait. 80 some people wouldn't pick it because its a gimmick. Its definitely more powerful than the other traits, and the poll shows it clearly.

Nerfing may be inevitable.

People like it because of early game turn advantage in techs, primarily. It's the easiest trait to get a feel for, and the one that really requires the least micromanagement to get use out of.

Doesn't mean it's overpowered. It's arguably the best trait, but it's definitely not overpowered by such a wide margin that it needs a nerf.

[phooey73]

Leader Traits

It was interesting to read what other people think are the best traits. The big surprise for me here was Organized. If Organized reduced city maintenance, it would be great, but I have not found Civics to be that expensive. Organized is my least favorite trait, though maybe I have not played it on a high enough a level yet.

I can see that Spiritual would be very useful to some people, but it doesn't suit my playstyle, and neither does Aggressive. That so many people like Organized really baffles me.

I find it hard to pick my favorite of the other 5, but I think I'm addictive to being Creative. I can focus my energy on expansion and can put off building culture buildings for a long time. And staking out your extended territory fast is a nice plus too. Its probably not the best, but its my favorite for now.

---------------------------------------------------

Some thoughts about Philsophical. Someone shared that you don't really get more great people, you just get them earlier. .

Definitely the primary advantage in Philosophical is getting your great people earlier, but you really will get more great people as well. Not double, but approximately +40%, if you don't spend a lot of time under Pacifism. You can work it out mathematically. Its a linear progression of cost, and you're generating twice as many great people points as a non-Philo. That works out to about +40%. If you want to add in the fact that the average city bucket is going to be holding as much as 40% more unused points, we can still make a lower bound of +20% more great people than for non-philosophical. The real figure will be somewhere in between 20% and 40%, and will depend on how many cities you have. If you had only 1 city, it will be +40%.

[Aginor]

Phooey,

Play at Emperor and up, and Organized really starts to shine. Civic maintenance gets VERY expensive on those levels, and you start out with a 2 beaker hit to research at the beginning of the game in maintenance if you are not Organized (and take an additional 2 beaker hit when you found your first city that you don't take as an Organized civ).

Maintenance in general gets bruising on those levels, so the cheap Courthouses are quite helpful.

[Blake]

Aggressive also becomes more valuable at higher difficulties, where losing a single unit has a much larger impact (since typically the AI armies are so much larger), and unit maitenace bites harder. Having a more potent military is a Good Thing.

[Urban Ranger]

Anarchy is fixed (usually a turn, but depending on number of civics you change at a time) and not proportional to game speed AFAIK. It means that Spiritual is almost worthless on Marathon and very potent on Quick.