specialists and early wonders

[dacole]

How early does everyone start using specialists? I usually don't start using them until I either reach the happiness or health level of the city..usually to many things I want to build or tiles to be worked. However I don't really specialize my cities probably should start that...

As well which of the ancient level wonders are the most useful? I've stayed away from the pyramids since I usually run heriditary rule for most of the early game..thought that stonehenge was a good early one to build until I realised that it becomes obselete when ANYONE reaches the calendar not just me...(I"m comeing from AC where obselesence wasn't an issue what can I say ). Since the tech tree moves so fast now by the time I've built it, someone usually researches the calandar within the next 5 or ten turns. Could build it earlier but not sure if it is worth the hit to expansion now...Thinking the parthenon, and the oracle followed by the greatlighthouse are the most useful now..)

[Blake]

The Oracle is a nice "gimmie" since it's so cheap.

You're silly not to get the Pyramids if you have Stone.

Stonehenge isn't obsoleted by others researching calendar. I've had it working for a very, very long time.

The Great Library is good to get, I'd say essential if you have marble.

The Great Lighthouse and Collosus are nice if you go for them early. They can be a little out of the way though, and are obviously situational - coastal starts only.

The Parthenon creates great artist points - bleh, and it's kinda pricey. I don't bother with it.

Basically I don't play Industrial civs and I prefer to "do without" when it comes to wonders, only getting those which I have the resource for. I don't bother with strats that rely on a particular wonder.

If a neighbour happens to build Pyramids I might invade them for it, since it is nice...

[Yuufo]

The Oracle allows many tricks: getting Code of Laws, Metallurgy or even Civil Service... It is cheap and can't become obsolete: you always get the prophet points (and i love prophet and merchants $$$)

Stonehenge is only worth it if I can build it within very few turns (e.g. I have stone nearby)

Great Lib: I love this one, especially if playing Philosophical leader or having Representation.

Great Lighthouse: good to have, but only if your capital is on the coast. Because I love Merchants GPP, I try to get it in this case. Same applies to Colossus, which I find better because of the possible double production with Copper.

Parthenon, Pyramids, Chichen Itza: good wonders, but I try them only if I got the resource.

I'm not convinced by the Hanging Gardens.

[gentle]

my 2 cents about early wonders :

Stonehenge: quite useless in its effect BUT you can get GPP production very early. This is better than it sounds imho.
(see Pathenon)

Pyramids: well, guess the specialist+representation style is known. Good way to get research

Parthenon: Same point as Oracle. If one plans to get GPs early its good.Same as the Pacifism civic/Philosophical trait I look upon these boni as "faster" not more GPs.

Colossus: useless imho

Great Lighthouse: well, the more coastal cities one has, the better it is (obviously).

Great Library: best or 2nd best imho. Together with representation it really kicks a**. 2 Scientiest can make a difference early on and they also give GPPs.

Hanging Gardens: Sort of "Point Gainer". Population gives a lot of points. Furthermore, +1 pop in every city can make the difference if it uses a specialist or not. Very good wonder imho

The Oracle: strong, can easily net you 500-1000 beakers
in one turn.

[JackRudd]

The Pyramids are a very good "First Wonder". One of my favourite tactics is: build Pyramids, wait for Great Engineer, rush-build Parthenon. That's a good way to get a nice little stream of Great People. (For best results, try with a Philosophical leader - Elizabeth is quite good for this.)

[dacole]

hmm

interesting thoughts the hanging gardens I've found useful in that when I build it I have 6 or seven size cities which grow slowly. The colusses and the great lighthouse are interesting. Trade routes don't seem to give me much money ever but still getting an extra +2 gold or so a turn adds up especially since it isn't obselete for a long time. Colusses is good if you have several costal cities I have found can spead up research quite quickly. Does end up going by by pretty quickly (astronomy is important tech) but an extra 10 gold or so even for 3 or four turns (usually more than that for me) is worth it especially if you can chop rush it I've found. Parthenon pryamids and great library are probably the best though..

[Blake]

Oh yeah, Hanging Gardens.

It is a permament empire-wide bonus, even if it is fairly small (the +1 health I mean). And it gives Great Engineer points. Nuff said.

I often get it with an early conquest strat which means I neglect all other wonder building and tech to construction (like take someones capital with an early rush then build/chop the Hanging Gardens in it for the culture).

[ghen]

I don't try for anything but the great library. If the game allows then I'll go for others, but I always try for those freebie scientists. That really kick-starts a gpp city.

[epsilon97]

I am confused about the benefits of the Great Library. What are its benefits? How do you maximize them?

Thanks

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by gentle
Oracle: quite useless in its effect

???

What's useless about getting something like Metal-Casting, Civil Service, Alphabet, Literature or Philosophy for free?

[gentle]

oh, i see...i mean stonehenge. oracle was described twice in my previous post (first and last). the first one -the one you are referring to- is meant to be stonehenge. = typo

*editing*

[gentle]

Originally posted by epsilon97
I am confused about the benefits of the Great Library. What are its benefits? How do you maximize them?

Thanks

The Great Library gives the city it is built in 2 scientists.
These scientists have 2 effects:

1. They produce 6 research points (unmodified).
This is quite a lot during the advanced beginning period.

2. They produce 6 Great Scientist points.
Also a lot.

Point here is imho that you can get the Great Library pretty early. Maybe you have built Pyramids early on and grabbed Metal Casting via Oracle, you can easily produce a Great Engineer in that city (pyramid+forge engineer) that rushes the library the turn you discover Literature.
At that (more or less) early stage the amount of beakers and great person points the Great Library gives notably enhances / speeds up research and GP production.
Of course this nicely fits with representation.
The early engineer gets extra research points and the 2 scientists produce 12 instead of 6^^.

edit:
corrected some messed up numbers

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by gentle


The Great Library gives the city it is built in 2 scientists.
These scientists have 2 effects:

1. The produce 12 research points (unmodified).
This is quite a lot during the advanced beginng period.

Doesn't this presuppose Representation?

[gentle]

....-> *checking and making sure*

ok, checked it and you are right.
It is 3 unmodified.
Seems I got too used to representative stats =P
sry for that.

[dacole]

Hmm I'll have to try doing the pryamids I usually skip that one and go for stonehenge but then I usually skip the techs for music and literature until after I have gotten gun powder...but then I play usually for an early industrial (before tanks and scientific method) conquest victory)