Barbarians

[Jaybe]

To make things more interesting I removed the player handicaps vs. barbarians.
To make things more "fair" (easier) I greatly reduced the AI handicaps vs. barbarians. They are normally 70% vs animals, 40% vs barb units at all difficulties.

No, with those changes I don't think I'll play with raging barbs for awhile.

[CarnalCanaan]

I think the barbarians are supposed to be a new drag on ICS. I've wished, several times, that I'd spent a little longer building my military rather than forcing another settler out.

AND they attack on all axes. Novel.

[Blake]

I played a raging barbs highlands game with the AI barb bonuses removed.

I expected an AI or two to actually get eliminated, but they didn't get wrecked too much more than usual. I suspect they either build so many garrisons or get so many for free that the barbs just can't take thier cities.

[djpsychonaut]

Originally posted by CarnalCanaan
I think the barbarians are supposed to be a new drag on ICS.

If that was the intention, then it's backfiring because ICS is one of the best ways to rid yourself of the barbarian hordes...

[Blake]

Not exactly. Filling in all your land will eliminate the barb menace, but in many situations there is too much land, try ICS'ing your way out of barb problems on Highlands, they especially put a drag on "unsecured" ICS, you can still sprawl cities everywhere but they need a couple of solid garrisons and some cultural improvements...


On more normal maps, Barbarians are especially a problem for conquering civs, when you wipe out your neighbour you end up with all the land you (and your neighbour!) "should" have expanded into being a barb-breeding zone, so if anything it's a drag on early conquest.

[djpsychonaut]

But on most other maps, it is an effective solution. Clearly you would still need to build up military and culture, but an early focus on expansion is still an effective way to reduce the barb influence.

[MadDjinn]

I've found that Archers (followed eventually by longbows) sitting on a hill tend to get the barbs interest.. as long as there isn't that many of them at a time, you can keep them at bay for awhile. sometimes I've made cities for the express purpose of getting barbs to stop bothering my other ones.

Archers can usually handle everything til Axeman. Swordsman for some reason kill them faster, but then you should be upgraded to longbow by then.

the most important issue is to let them attack you. get the defense bonus.

[Enigma_Nova]

And what if they decide to pillage like the AI tends to do?

[MadDjinn]

try to keep the units far enough out that there isn't an issue with that. and for the couple of cities used to distract the barbs.. no improvements except for roads in used there til I need to push out more.


... and sometimes you have to sally forth...

[Blake]

Yeah, the idea is to push your borders out to create "lightning rods", a few barbs will still slip past... but you can always just throw 2-3 units at them to kill them.
Ideally you'd only have to throw 1 Shock Axeman to kill a barb axeman but we all know the barbs have a special relationship with the god of random numbers.

Early in the game with double-raging barbs I fortify axemen on critical resources, and archers on hills. Later I push my borders out and start "active defense" in the interior. Trying to do active defense in the early game is suicide since your units just can't heal fast enough if they are moving/attacking, otoh if they only defend they heal every turn and they get the 25% bonus to boot. It's better to have improvements pillaged than your units killed and cities razed.

[stickyjo]

Yeah, you know, I tried a couple games without barbarians and just didn't enjoy it. As frustrating as the bastards are, they do present a challenge that I guess I miss, in hindsight. I'm doing better against them now, with more troops of the right sort in defensible positions, and a better understanding of the barbarian dynamic. Thanks for all the responses, I've enjoyed hearing from you.

[Crossfire]

I really like Mongols so I can spam Keshiks out on my borders to control the barbs. As soon as I have gained the upper hand I can reorient myself into attack mode and clean out my nearest neighbor before he gets pikes.

And I would agree, I hate barbs, but I hate not having them more.

[Enigma_Nova]

So long as both my enemy and I both have barb problems, I'm all for barbarians.

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Blake


"The Barbarians are under complete control".

And yes, that is a screenshot from a game I'm WINNING.

How did you get the number of turns unitl completion to show up on the map like that?

ACK!

[Bill3000]

Uh, that's a default option, Tuberski...