Mansa attacked at Pleased (and stay pleased during war)

[gdpdht]

I just experienced something similar. Tokugawa attacked me when he was pleased, but he lacked oil and I had oil at a city on the border right next to him. I guess it was just too big of a temptation and his army was double the size of mine so I had no chance.

I then reloaded the game and traded an oil resource to him, and sure enough he has not attacked me, atleast not yet.

[hexagonian]

Originally posted by Tiberius
No, exactly because I want to have some allies for the rest of the game, not only enemies. Maybe very rarely, in the endgame, when it didn't matter anyway and I needed desperately aluminium or some other resource.
But in 99% of the situations, no, I haven't.

Not even if the ally is the clear frontrunner??? I just did that to the Chineses because they were in the lead, and were had the potential to culture-envelop one of my cities. And I had a great working relationship with them to boot.

[mgdpublic]

Originally posted by Strategist83
The AI might attack you if you are winning. Right before a space race victory, a pleased Capac attacked me with all he had.

You should have won the "Pleased Capac" victory. I don't think I 've ever seen that lil bastid less than annoyed.

[Arrian]

I attacked and crushed a civ (England) that I was pleased with (and who was pleased with me). I then turned on my other neighbor, who had been pleased with me the whole game, but who had just dropped to cautious (Inca).

Why? They shared my continent, I'm Organized and can thus handle the extra cities, and I had the military advantage. Plus they were two of the most advanced civs... wipe them out and the competition is all the weaker (although it's already a bit of a joke - I got lucky with the overseas civs all being backward: Aztecs alone on an island, Saladin-Isabella-Cyrus together on a continent).

I guess I'm a bastard, eh?

-Arrian

[ZargonX]

I think sometimes the AI will attack you, regardless of relations, if it sees an opportunity. For instance, I had Caeser on my right, and Frederick to my left. Frederick was at pleased, with the only negative being a -1 for not helping at some point. I got into a war with Caeser, and sent most of my troops east, save for a unit or two in the cities along my border with the Germans. A few turns later, Frederick attacks out of the blue. Strength-wise, I think we were pretty equal. But my troops were far away, and that gave him time to do some damage before they came back to push him out.

But, yeah, what's the point of good relations if the AI is just going to ignore them?

[Badtz Maru]

Originally posted by Tiberius
I think this shouldn't happen. What's the point to keep the AI pleased/happy if they attack you anyway ? Sometimes it takes a considerable effort to convert the AI to your religion and to keep at least some of them happy.

Btw, a question that bothers me for a while: how does the AI know that your military is weak?!? If they have the same religion I understand, because they have the religious "line-of-sight" (but in this case they shouldn't attack you), but otherwise ??

I think this is the first version of Civ where the AI doesn't automatically know where your troops are. They do know if you are militarily weak in general without any scouting, because they have access to the stats just like you do, but I've never seen them beeline for my least protected city like they have in past versions unless they have some means of knowing.

Remember, there are lots of ways the AI can find out that you are weak even if you don't have open borders with them. They can send a caravel or submarine by one of your coastal cities. They might have a unit on a hill next to your border. They could be sending spys, or if they have the holy city for a religion in your city they can see what troops you have.

I'm pretty sure they aren't cheating like this, because I've seen them totally ignore an undefended city until one of their caravels pulls up next to it, next thing you know they are declaring war and making a rush for that city.

[Arrian]

But, yeah, what's the point of good relations if the AI is just going to ignore them?

They don't ignore them, but they remain opportunistic. The relations have more effect than just whether or not they will pick a fight w/you. Trade (both techs and otherwise) is heavily impacted by relations. As is their willingness to do your bidding (as in declaring war on someone else for you - for a price, of course).

I've been hit out of the blue too, and generally it's due to my military being pathetically weak.

-Arrian

[Diadem]

The AI always does a lot of scouting. I assume that isn't programmed just because it looks pretty. I'm pretty sure they don't know your military and numbers by means of cheating.

They do have access to the stats screens though. You can find a lot of information there. Sometimes human players don't have access to these screens because they don't know they exist. That's when the AI has an unexpected edge

[Yaga]

I don't mind the "pleased" people attacking so much, but you'd think if they liked you they'd be a little more communicative about the why:

Mansa : "Look, Julius, I like you an all, but I gotta have some iron, man, and you've got three of them just sitting there."
Me : "I can give you some, but dude, you gotta promise not to come back at me with some knights."
Mansa : "Okay -- a non-aggression pact for so long as you supply me with iron"
Me : "And for ten turns after one of us ends the deal."
Mansa : Peace, out.

*sigh*

[gilfan]

Originally posted by Diadem
The AI always does a lot of scouting. I assume that isn't programmed just because it looks pretty. I'm pretty sure they don't know your military and numbers by means of cheating.

I disagree. Most of the time when an AI attacks me because of my lack of military, I don't have open borders with them, and they don't have the holy city of any of the religions in my cities. Yes, they do scout and there is a reason for it, but their knowledge of your military strength doesn't appear to have anything to do with scouting.

[VetLegion]

Folks, you forget the dice

I bet at least a part of AI decision making is based on throwing dice.

[Enigma_Nova]

If by "Throwing dice" you mean "Throwing Spears", then yes.

[Shaka II]

Originally posted by mgdpublic


You should have won the "Pleased Capac" victory. I don't think I 've ever seen that lil bastid less than annoyed.

Every game's different. I decided that to defend against an equal strength Asoka, that a defensive pact with stronger Capac who was pleased with me, was the way to go (it's down to us three now). When I asked about it, he said "we just don't like you well enough". It was really because I had switched to free religion, and a switch back to organized Hindu, brought him instantly up to friendly and won a key defense pact.

Sometimes you have to really try if you want to get in good. But it paid off, after Asoka attacked, Capac was there in force, probably much better than a half hearted human player.

[Shogun Gunner]

I consider this unpredictable nature of the AI a plus for the game. Being able to understand how to manipulate the AI isn't a fun game. I would rather be surprised once in awhile by their actions.

[Enigma_Nova]

I disagree. Manipulation is the bomb.