Article: Civilization 4 Review by "Yin26" (Part 1/3)

[DanQ]

"Yin26", a long-time "on" and "off" poster on Apolyton Civilization Site's (ACS) forums and strategy gamer, has completed his review of Civilization IV exclusively for ACS. He received his copy of the game thanks to funds raised through an effort in ACS` Civ community earlier this year.

Yin26's ~11,000 word review has been broken up into three parts. Part 1 has been published today. Entitled "CivIV by the Numbers", he outlines "a crude device that allows YOU to rate [the game] on your own terms. [..] For anybody trying to decide whether or not to buy CivIV, this system is as good as any". He then uses his own scale to outline his own score, accompanied by details as to why he rated a particular element a particular way. In part, Yin26 concludes that "while you'll find the game pretty fun in the first several weeks, you know only some solid patching will keep you playing in the future".

More commonly referred to as just "Yin", the second part of "Yin26"`s review is scheduled to be published on December 13th. Notably vocal and critical in the past of Alpha Centauri, Civilization: Call to Power and more recently Civilization III, the 34-year-old lives in New Haven, Connecticut with his wife and two young daughters.

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Dan; Apolyton CS

[DanQ]

Two points in quick follow-up:

1) Yin suggested the three-part 'breakup' of his review when he submitted it.
2) Although I will not say when Part 3 is scheduled for publishing just yet, I will say that it will be before the end of this year... so there.

( Reference: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...54#post4165354 )



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Dan; Apolyton CS

[yin26]

My thanks to Dan for all his work formatting this beast for the Web! And I was just kidding you about the measured releases of review parts!

While I'm here, I'd like to thank 3 people for their feedback on the rough draft of my review:

Stan Karpinski (Ages of Man fame: http://www.theagesofman.net/)

Hexagonian (Cradle --the inspiration for Ages of Man-- fame: http://www.geocities.com/hexagonia/)

and

Smithldoo (key Ages of Man tester for Stan)

Together, these 3 guys represent some of the most outstanding criticism of the Civ/CtP games out there. Hex and Stan, of course, have given enormous personal time to actually mod CtP2 into something quite outstanding, and I hope everybody plays Ages of Man 2 just for an education on some possibilities for Civ 4. Who knows...maybe Ages of Man 2 will hold your interest a lot longer than you might imagine.

Smithldoo, while passionate in his preference of Ages of Man to Civ 4, also has some keen criticism to offer. A critic myself (perhaps not always a very keen one, alas), I respect his criticism because it might help push a genre we all love much further along.

[TomVeil]

It's strange to see pictures of first Vel and now Yin. I've been a lurker/occasional poster here for a long time without ever stumbling across anyone's real photos. I gotta admit, I always thought Yin was Chinese. I don't know why I ever try to divine any meaning from screen names.

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

Well Yin, I have to say that this-overall-looks quite positive. I mean sure you are not absolutely in love with the game, but it certainly sounds like you already believe it is worlds better than Civ3 and-more importantly-that you genuinely feel that existing problems can be fixed (rather than thinking the whole game is broken).
I just wished to chuck in a few things. First up, I wasn't an MP Civ player until Civ4 came out. This is not only due to the greater stability of MP in Civ4, but also because I genuinely believe that it is far less of a 'kill or be killed' scenario than in previous iterations. A large part of this, I believe, is due to the intersection of religion, civics, trade and diplomacy. An intersection which plays a huge role in SP games too.
Now, I should point out that SDK was always going to be an early 2006 release, even as far back as May this year. I believe it had something to do with licensing issues, but am not certain. Even Pitboss's release was pushed back before the game's release-and I blame this-and a lot of the bugs-on Take2's decision to release the game 2-weeks early!
Anyway, though I am not 100% satisfied with everything that is in Civ4-or how it was done-I feel certain that mods, patches and expansions will lead to this being the best Civ game ever released!!!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

[vee4473]

Yin,

My score is +1.

[+1 to +5]: CivIV has hints of brilliance and overall solid gameplay that will really intrigue you. A few patches will almost certainly make the game much better --even great-- for you.

2 pennies

[yin26]

Well, to dispel the Chinese issue (it's a fairly common misconception, actually!), here is the whole photo of me, my wife (who is of Korean descent but was born in North Carolina) and my two girls:



Aussie_Lurker: Indeed, I think you've summed it up. I think Civ 4 is fixable/improvable and has a very solid core. Civ 3, I felt, was beyond help, so I abandoned it, perhaps unfairly. Be that as it may, I hope the rest of the review will give helpful details for somebody thinking about buying the game.

vee4473: Do you have the game already, and does that score correspond with your thoughts of Civ 4?

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

Hmmm, depending on how I feel at any given time, my score varies from -1 to -5 to a +1 to +5, but with a strong leaning towards the +1 to +5. I can see Yin's reasons for his scores, but I can also understand why Vee may have given it the score he does. For me, I actually love the 3D element, even though I don't usually care about graphics and sounds in Civ games. Had it stuffed up, then my score may have been lower. I also couldn't care less about the tutorial or the manual-so long as they gave me the basic info I needed (and, these days, most games don't even GIVE you a paper manual !) Oh, but I do agree that the Civilopedia truly SUCKS at the moment, and is the one area where Civ3 was better than Civ4. Guys, 'if it ain't broke, Don't fix it!'
I don't like spies in their current format, and still feel that religion is too vanilla, and I would really love to see Firaxis tackle some of the 'darker angels' of humanity's nature. I understand why they may have wanted to avoid doing this in the vanilla game, but hope that they feel brave enough to tackle it in expansions.
Another thing I can't help but notice is that there are around 10X as many mods out, at least, than there was with Civ3 after the same length of time (and even those required a major hack of the game), and some of them are really quite radical in nature (just check out Trip's Rebellion mod, or Mylon's culture mod). Once the SDK is out though, that is when I think we will see Civ4 come alive in a way that NONE of its predecessors ever could.
Anyway, I certainly have high hopes.
P.S. Though I enjoyed civ3 for what it was worth-and liked certain elements of the game-I don't think you unfairly abandoned it at all Yin!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

[vee4473]

The rating system is quite accurate Yin.

I've had the game and been playing since its release.

Doing my best to overlook and deal with some performance issues (even after a vid card upgrade) I do think civ 4 has the potential to become a great game. ICS has been tamed, by means of increasing focus on stronger, more powerful cities...not how many you have.

But, the interface, performance and support (read manual/civ explanations) issues hold it back. You hit the nail on the head when you said that certain game concepts are totally absent with regards to explanation.

I posted a ranting thread about my frustration with the lack of an index...you read my mind.

MP is not an issue for me at the moment, for civ it never has been. I tend to go for warcraft or starcraft, AOE etc.. for that... I always thought civ needed too much of an investment in time for MP.

An unresolved point for me is the combat system. I like the strength method, but the way it seems to negate modern combat bonuses is something I am wrestling with.

It does lend an advantage to lesser civs, and that is good (to keep them in the game), but the jury is still out on this one for me.

Your part 1 review is everything that I have thought about regarding civ 4.


With you and Vel on the job, Firaxis would be insane to ignore this type of feedback.

good job.

[vee4473]

Originally posted by The_Aussie_Lurker
Hmmm, depending on how I feel at any given time, my score varies from -1 to -5 to a +1 to +5, but with a strong leaning towards the +1 to +5. I can see Yin's reasons for his scores, but I can also understand why Vee may have given it the score he does. For me, I actually love the 3D element, even though I don't usually care about graphics and sounds in Civ games. Had it stuffed up, then my score may have been lower.

My opinion varies too, but overall it is positive. The 3D element is great for me too.

I never have been in the camp of those who think that good graphics are a "sell out" for a strategy game. However, if they aren't implemented well, then that's another story.

Graphics and gameplay can and should go hand in hand. There's a reason why sight, smell and presentation are as important to a great meal as taste is...

I still get extremely frustrated when bringing up the tile grid lags the game by so much.

[Chronus9]

I gotta admit, I always thought Yin was Chinese. I don't know why I ever try to divine any meaning from screen names.

I also gotta admit . . . I was expecting someone Oriental.

Instead we get this . . . this . . . cowboy(??!) (sorry - the background in your picture has that rural/ranch look)

Incidentally, that's a mighty fine looking family you have there, Yin.
And thanks for the review and for your input here on this site.

[Tuberski]

My overall score is a +3. MP is not a big issue to me.

So that was +2 of the +3.

I've haven't had a problem with people thinking I'm Polish, however.

ACK!

[Shogun Gunner]

[+1 to +5]: CivIV has hints of brilliance and overall solid gameplay that will really intrigue you. A few patches will almost certainly make the game much better --even great-- for you.

I scored a 2 and the description is a pretty fair assessment of my position.

BTW, Yin, you have a very nice family

[MarkG]

when can we have a photo of your daughters feeding you the box?

[Ellestar]

The clear battle odds also add tremendously in this regard.

If you're talking about "Combat odds", then it's just a strength ratios of units. It's not even close to real chances to win/lose. Also, in some cases better combat odds don't mean that you have more than 50% chance to win.