Interface Woes: Extorting Tech from AI

[TheRedmenace]

OK seriously. I've just pounded a rival back to 4000 BC. He's my *****. My ***** with some juicy techs. He won't give them all for peace. OK fine, so let's say I take what he offers and have a peace. Now suppose I want to demand tribute. How do I do this, since he hates me so much all his trade options are red. I'm not ASKING him whether he likes me enough to trade. I want those things or we get war, tough bananas! For the life of me, I can't figure out how to do this. Any advice, friends?

[Diadem]

You can't. It's one of the stupid things in Civ4.
There is no "give me that or die" option.

[TheRedmenace]

[Philotas]

Although I like the CIV diplomacy changes, would like to see a long list of "Do this or I'll attack" options, which would include religious converting, unit building, civic changes, and warring/trading with other AI's. (i.e. "Stop building nukes or I'll attack" or "Stop fighting my ally or I'll attack")

[John-SJ]

It seems to me it should be more than do x or I will attack. There should be other diplomatic options as well, other punitive actions to match the demand.

What about options like, give me dyes or I will cancel another trade deal (or all trade deals). This could be very effective if you threatened his only source of iron or aluminum. What about revoking open borders? Things like that.

I see a need for two different diplomatic screens maybe. One for negotiating, and another for demands.

[Diadem]

of course, the AI could then in return make demands of that kind as well.

Instead of the current "Do this or ..." and you just have to find out by ignoring him what the '...' means exactly.

[MasterSlowPoke]

They pretty much already can - I don't think anything's ever 'red' for the player.

[Bhruic]

Well, nothing is ever 'red' because the game doesn't know what you won't trade/give up. And how would it? The stuff that's in red, the AI won't give you. Threaten to declare war all you want, it still won't give it to you.

Generally I think that's the best way to go about it, even if it's annoying in the specifics some times.

Bh

[Quillan]

Nope, nothing is ever "red" for the players options, which I find to be a problem. I'd like to be able to designate certain things as "Verboten", so the AI wouldn't even ask about them. Of course, if I did so, I probably wouldn't have the option of offering those things either, but I could live with that. As it is, if I want to provoke an AI into a war, I can't even get the negative diplomacy modifiers for demanding tribute if everything is red. It won't even allow me to ask. However, the AI can ask for the most ridiculous crap and I'll still amass negatives if I turn them down.

[alexman]

As Bhruic said, the items in red mean that the AI's answer is "NO" to anything that has to do with giving up those items, including demanding them as tribute.

So the current way it works actually saves you some trouble because you don't even have to put the items on the table and ask for them. It saves you a step.

[dschur]

I guess there are some simplifications that have to be made to allow the AI to have its chance. I do find it annoying that my allies can come asking for my shiniest new tech, for free, AND hit me with a minus for not giving it. Then, when I try to negotiate that deal, I see them holding their own shiny techs back, as red trade items.

I don't mind quite so much that they get to ask for things for free, I mind the penalty applied to me for refusing to do what they would also refuse to do.

EDIT> sorry. that sentence is painful to read, hope you get the idea

[Blake]

The other thing is when I want to offer an insanely lopsided deal. Like "Give me that stupid little rubbish punk city you founded in my borders and I'll give you 6 techs and bring you into the next age.... or else."

[John-SJ]

...bring you into the next age or pound you back into the previous one! Hehe!

[John-SJ]

The way things are now is a simplification, more than likely made as stated here to give the computer a bbetter chance, but it also removes a choice, and one that can be darn fun to play around with.

I want my diplomatic coercive ability back!

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by alexman
As Bhruic said, the items in red mean that the AI's answer is "NO" to anything that has to do with giving up those items, including demanding them as tribute.

So the current way it works actually saves you some trouble because you don't even have to put the items on the table and ask for them. It saves you a step.

True, and I'd rather not repetitively get deals turned down, but what seems lopsided is the diplo hit to the human, and the AI ability to make a demand that the human cannot reciprocate.

I haven't noticed the AI having "You refused to help us / pay tribute" variables on an AI-AI relationship report. If they don't get these demands and penalties, but the human player does, the result would be more AI->human wars, and less AI->AI wars - which is what some players are reporting.