Culture and cities.. not what you think?

[drtechno]

It appears that the cultural effects or 'aura' that a city produces is NOT related to the total culture of the city (as it should be) but rather is related to the amount of cultural growth in the city.

What I mean by this is that a city with 5000 culture (assume the city had 1000 culture initially but got +4000 from a great artist) but only a +10 culture/turn will have LESS of an aura than a city with 1000 culture but +50 culture/turn.

It seems the reason for this is that the tiles around a city gain culture proportional to the rate at which the main city gains culture, NOT proportional to the total culture of that city.

Can anyone else confirm this?

Therefore, it seems that great artists only effect the total culture of a city for victory purposes, but not the 'aura' that is spread by the city.

The reason I say this is that my captured city with 10000 culture is not 'penetrating' the border of the AI's cities, which have 1000 culture (and another with 500 and another with 300 culture). My city should have vast borders in comparison, but it can't even expand into the adjacent square on the side it shares with the AI cities.

Using the debugger, it seems that tiles have 'cultural memory' meaning that the total acculmulated culture in a square is MAINTAINED even after you conquer the city.

Ideas?

[Shaka II]

That's an interesting theory and would help explain some of the mysteries of cultural expansion in captured cities, or in any city where you decide to add an artist to push back borders. I've certainly noticed that great artists don't always get much return for their 4,000 culture when used in this way. But if foreign cultural borders have been laid bare, it's a great way to rapidly fill in the space.

Also, what about the way in which cultural expansion occurs. I think each cultural border expansion requires progressively larger steps in culture. So does adding 4,000 culture add only one step, or does it add as many steps as would normally occur through the accumulation of 4,000 culture?

[Diadem]

Great artists certainly help.

Perhaps the increase in aura is related to the speed of culture increase, and not the total culture itself. But a great artist definitely boosts culture of the aura as well. You can boost enemy cities back by quite a bit with a single Great Artist (unless those cities are very cultured, like capitals, I guess).

[drtechno]

Well here is the situation. I captured a capital, and then to 'regain' some of the tiles, I pumped 2 great artists into the capital. And it really didn't do too much to push back the enemy borders. It seemed my rate of tile conversion was still very dependent upon the rate of increase of my city's culture, rather than its total culture.

Maybe I should run a test (if I can figure out how) in the world builder to see if it its true.

Any way to add a great artist to a game with the debugger ?

[SirSebastian]

Although I have neither the explanation nor the data, this is why I now strongly consider adding the artist as a super specialist instead. Early enough in the game, the 4000 culture will make a huge difference, though. However, you would -think- that if there was any time to add the artist as a super specialist that it would be as early as possible - but this is not so!

I will ponder this truth as the more analytical delve deeper...

[Dubhghlas]

I think you will find that the culture of a tile is a function both of the intensity of the nearby culture and the amount of time with which it has had contact with that cultural intensity.

Thus, if you put a great artist into an area with relatively new cities, the culture nuke will result in many tiles immediately changing culture allegiance, because the intensity of the nuking civ's culture is great in comparison to the soaked up culture of the target civ. But if you try the same trick later on, there will be fewer tiles that flip right away, because they have been deeply soaked with the target civ's culture.

If you persevere, however, you will slowly but surely start to win those tiles to your civ, because you start to beat on them with a much greater intensity after your culture nuke is set off. I had this happen in my AU100-A game, after I took Baghdad from the Arabs, and let off a culture nuke that I thought would eat deeply into Arabic and Mongol territory (a three-way junction just outside of Baghdad existed). Not a single tile changed. But 50 turns later, the situation was quite different.

[TheHateMale]

Originally posted by drtechno
Well here is the situation. I captured a capital, and then to 'regain' some of the tiles, I pumped 2 great artists into the capital. And it really didn't do too much to push back the enemy borders.

Did you use them on the same turn?