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  • OCC (One City Challenge) at Monarch and above

    I have been playing a lot of OCC (OCC for those who do not know, stands for One City Challenge, a style of playing Civ games where the human player is only allowed to have one city) games and am trying to develop a good strategy for obtaining Space Race wins at the higher difficulty levels.

    Obtaining a win on Noble was fairly easy, on Prince it was a decent challenge, but when I moved up to the Monarch level things became really tough, and it took 8 attempts (using various starts and strategies) until I was just able to manage my first Monarch level win.


    If other players are spending time on OCC games at the higher difficulty levels and would like to share their ideas and suggestions here, it would be appreciated.

    Perhaps we could even play a few comparison games, each of us using the same start, and then share results and insights after our games are completed.


    First, I’ll list a few ground rules I have adopted for my own games so far when making selections from the Custom Game Setup screen:

    1) The Civ and leader chosen are optional.

    2) The default number of random AI opponents is used.

    3) The type of map used is optional. I have tried several different types in my games so far, seeing advantages and disadvantages with each kind used.

    4) I have been using the Standard game speed.

    5) The only option I have been selecting in the next section is OCC (One City Challenge).

    6) Although I have been playing for a Space Race win myself, all other victory options have been left open as options for the AI opponents. (However, with the changes to latter tech costs and space ship parts in the first patch, I might turn off the time limit in future games).

    By listing these, I am not saying they are necessary, but am just letting other players know under what options and conditions I have been playing my own OCC games.


    OCC at the higher levels has presented a number of interesting challenges, and I’ll list some of them along with my best solutions found so far:

    1) Choosing the best Civ and leader for the task.

    I have had my best results so far using Qin Shi Huang (Industrious & Financial) of the Chinese. Industrious has consistently allowed me to finish the Pyramids first and in my last few games it has also allowed me to beat the AI to the Great Lighthouse. The Financial trait adds many extra commerce, which I feel is required in order to research quickly enough.

    I have also tried Bismarck (Industrious & Expansive) of the Germans, because without Expansive I was having health problems and thought the extra +2 health would come in handy. However, when playing as Bismarck, my commerce suffered and I fell behind the AI in research.

    2) Avoiding conflict with the AI and minimizing damage when they do attack.

    At higher levels I think going on the offensive to subdue the AI is not an option. With their higher production and with more cities to pump out military units, the AI have a significant advantage.

    Also, the Civ IV AI will not hesitate to attack a poorly defended city. In every game where I have skimped on city defense, I have been attacked and eliminated, even by AI normally considered to be peaceful. Their attitude (+ or -) doesn’t seem to make much difference when they attack for this reason.

    However, during the first phase of the game, when the AI are building settlers and establishing their first few cities, I’ve found AI attacks are rare, so there is a window of opportunity to develop my own city quite a bit before pumping out a lot of good defenders. Times when I have been attacked early have been by close neighbors such as Napolean, Tokugawa and the Mongolians, AI leaders with a reputation for attacking early.

    On continent maps, I’ve had success by becoming friendly with my closest neighbor and then joining him or her when they go to war or are attacked. Their borders act as a good buffer and afterwards they seem to remain a loyal friend.

    I’ve also had success in deterring attacks by fortifying military units in each vulnerable tile (sea and land), and by building and manning forts along my borders.

    Careful diplomacy makes a difference, too, but appeasement doesn’t seem to work (in this way Civ IV is much different than Civ II). I’ve found it best to refuse tribute when it is demanded. Then, instead of exiting the diplomacy screen, I’ll sell them an old tech if one is available, set up a commodity trade if one can be made, or as a last resort, make a gift of 10 gold. So far, refusing a demand has not immediately led to a declaration of war (again, much unlike Civ II, where war then became inevitable).

    So far I’ve found that if I have a strong defense, I can pretty much ignore the diplomacy plusses and minuses, as long as each diplomacy sessions ends with the AI coming away with something, even if it’s only a small gift of gold.

    In my successful Monarch game, Catherine of Russia became the dominant AI player and soon my minuses with her were ahead of the plusses (I think this becomes inevitable with Catheine!), but I kept trading with her enemies anyways and treated her demands as described above. She was in a few other wars, but never attacked me.

    I’ve found that I want aggressive types such as Catherine in my OCC games, because if things remain too peaceful, one of the AI is most likely to outresearch me and build a spaceship before I even have a chance to compete. I want them to fight a lot, but only with each other.

    3) Finding the best way to maximize research

    I like coastal sites best for many reasons. One is that coastal specials, such as fish, offer more food as well as the extra commerce that land based food specials lack. A coastal site with 2 or more special resources makes it a prime candidate for an OCC game. With the addition of a Lighthouse, and then the Great Lighthouse wonder, commerce will take a jump because of those extra early trade routes. Then, researching quickly to Compass provides a Harbor, which boosts commerce again as well as adding extra health from the coastal resources. It is mainly for these reasons that I now prefer Archipelago maps, when trying to beat the AI at higher levels.

    The other factor in maximizing research is to grow as quickly as possible and to make Drama (reached through Writing & Alphabet) an early priority so the Globe Theater can be built. Building the Pyramids as the first wonder allows rapid growth to size 8, and if a Great Engineer is produced as the first Great Person(very likely), he might be used later to rush buy the Great Library. In my successful game on Monarch, I was able to build the Pyramids and Great Lighthouse, but the first Great Person was a Merchant, so I missed out on the Great Library. However, I think the Great Lighthouse helps early research more with those extra early trade routes and I prefer it to the Great Library if I have to choose between the two.

    Later in the game, it’s just a beeline to Education and the following techs that boost research such as Astronomy and Computers. I got a good tech lead in my game and used it to trade for older techs, getting them at bargain rates, when they were finally needed to continue to Rocketry. It was during the middle part of the game that I was able to build a very solid defense, which was successful in dissuading AI attacks throughout the rest of the game.

    4) The problem of health in OCC

    Although the Globe Theater takes care of happiness in OCC games, health is another matter. In games with more than one city, many health enhancing resources can be found or traded for, and the health benefits are shared by all cities, but in OCC one has fewer resources and this means lower health production. It takes a long time to research to the best health enhancing techs and city improvements, such as hospitals. In addition, if techs such as Genetics are researched early for their extra health, then time will be wasted that could have been used rushing to Rocketry and getting a quick start on the Space Race. I had a serious health deficit during most of my game, and when hammers became a priority later to build SS parts quickly, health took another hit from the hammer enhancing city improvements.

    I think the best way to deal with the health deficit is to choose a city site that can produce a lot of extra food. I would say that at least 3 food resources are needed to produce enough food to grow quickly enough to full size while feeding the extra mouths requiring more health.

    5) Finally, the Space Ship must be built quickly

    If the human player does not get a jump on the AI in spaceship construction, the race will be lost because with only one city, only one SS part can be built at a time. So Rocketry must be researched as soon as possible, even though it might be tempting to go to Industrialism first to look for Aluminum or to Genetics for some relief in health.

    However, the Space Elevator Wonder provides such a good boost to SS part construction, making Robotics a priority may pay off. Beware though, because this depends on your city’s location on the map. Although poorly documented, one requirement for a city to build the Space Elevator is that it be located close enough to the Equator (30 degrees north or south). I did not know this when playing my game and had saved up two Great Engineers to rush the wonder only to arrive at Robotics and find that the Elevator could not be built. I managed without it, but had my city been closer to the Equator, I would have been able to finish my space ship sooner than I actually did.


    This post is rather too long already, so I will conclude by noting that the attached zip file contains the start I used for this game as well as my final turn. It’s a good start for a Monarch OCC game, so other players may want to try it and see how they can do with it. My game was completed before the first patch was distributed, so my SS win will be delayed a few turns if you load the final save and run under version 1.09, where SS parts cost more hammers.
    Attached Files

  • #2
    Great post! It wasn't too long at all. I really appreciate the level of detail and insights you described. While I don't play it much, I have toyed with OCC occasionaly. I'll try to get more gametime in.

    I was curious about the level of military you typically maintain through the ages.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks for the kind comments!

      During the early part of the game, right after completing the two wonders, I made a galley to sit on each sea resource, and a few archers for my city. Usually that's enough of a deterrant, since the AI are usually still busy establishing new cities.

      Then I build essential improvements: library, granary, theater, Globe Theater, aqueduct, and a harbor. After that, I start adding more military units, until it's time to build the universities and an observatory. Then it's a period of military buildup again, especially after I obtain Gunpowder. I try to fill each city tile with at least two good defenders, and add a few more ships, too. The city center gets all the rest (from 6 to 10 additional units).

      I don't get sidetracked by building non-essential buildings or wonders, and try to accumulate enough gold from tech trades (or Great Merchants) to rushbuy all late game city improvements, and keep a reserve to upgrade units, if trouble seems to be brewing. Most of the middle part of the game is spent building up the defenses.

      I've just tried an Emperor level game, and only had to defend against one minor attack, but the AI were too fast during the Space Race, leaving me with a ship that was only half built. If I could have traded for coal and/or iron, this might have made the difference. I'll try it again with another start.

      Comment


      • #4
        Very good post .

        I think that Phil/Fin (Elizabeth) would be the best OCC leader. Fin for obvious reasons, Phil because it gives you more super-specialists.

        Fin: Great.
        Phil: Great.
        Ind: Not quite as great as the above two, but still very good.
        Spi: Okay, because you could really micromanage things, making sure to switch very often, theo for finishing units, org.rel for buildings, suffrage for rushbuy.
        Exp: Weak.
        Agg: Very weak.
        Creative: Very very weak.
        Organized: Very very very weak. (yay for cheap lighthouse )

        Agree?

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks, Blake! I'm always picking up good tips from your posts in many other threads, too.

          Philosophical is strong and I may give it a try, though I like getting the Pyramids and Great Lighthouse. I may just opt for the Lighthouse, rather than both when I try a game with (Phi,Fin). I agree with your assessment of the other traits. Not really worth considering for OCC, I'm afraid.

          What really hurts the OCC player a lot is the lack of health benefits during the middle part of the game, since I am typically using 7 or more food just for health, and must find starting sites with 3 or 4 food producing specials in order to grow to size 21. With extra cities, the extra health from extra specials can be shared everywhere. I wish OCC in Civ IV could be tweaked in a future patch to provide a little relief in health.

          The benefits of Genetics and Environmentalism come too late to be of much help. At Emperor level, a Space Race win may be out of reach, if the OCC player can not get his city to full size quickly and then have a few extra citizens to use for specialists.

          Perhaps generating a lot of Great Scientists is a viable alternative. In my Emperor level game, I thought the Great Library would help me out there, but instead the odds were bucked and I got 3 fairly useless Great Artists, instead. Still I was happy to see that I could reach some of the key techs first, such as Liberalism, Physics, Rocketry and Robotics.

          One other thing I've noticed in my games is that any AI sitting on a pile of gold will offer it all for a tech, even if it's one of the non-vital ones. In OCC, I am typically rushing everything I build using cash picked up from these trades. I had about 5000 gold in hand to help rush the Space Elevator near the end of my Emperor level game, but even with that wonder the AI were quicker to build a ship. Too many passive ones around this game, I'm afraid! The increased costs for research and space ship parts that came with 1.09 was not welcome to the OCC player, either!
          Last edited by solo; November 28, 2005, 11:00.

          Comment


          • #6
            Nice thread. I think philosophical is really powerfull, those extra settled super specialists cost no food and also benefit from representation.

            Might wanna check out Aesons civil service beeline for OCC games, see the thread 'technology beelines'.

            One thing i noticed is you can build any number of national wonders in your OCC city. I built em all in my last OCC game! ironworks, heroic+national epic, the globe... Is this a bug or what? isn't there a limit of 2 per city? this limit is not active in OCC?

            Comment


            • #7
              Yeah, the resource and especially health problems look like a royal pain-in-the-butt. I think I'll give OCC a miss on Civ 4 above the junior levels for this reason. I played some OCC on Civ 3, which was feasible with a luxury-cluster at the start, because of the Empire size being factored into resource trading costs.

              Congrats for your perseverance with it though, Solo, and thanks for the tip on the Space Elevator. I wondered why I couldn't build it in some places.

              PS - Your post wasn't too long. Good posts are never too long.

              Comment


              • #8
                btw Solo - what was your Religious Policy?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks Escaped Goat!

                  Since it's two votes now for Philosophical, I must give it a try next time.

                  I forgot to mention that after a harbor is built, Civil Service is the very next priority, which is picked up on the way to Education. It's obvious that Bureaucracy is the best for OCC. I've seen Aeson's thread and take note whenever he makes a new post anywhere.

                  With OCC built in as a game option, it was nice to see that they waive the 2 National Wonder limit. Too bad, they could not make an adjustment or two to compensate for having access to fewer resources, especially for health boosters.

                  Cort Haus,

                  I played quite a bit of OCC on Civ III, when the game first came out, and even managed a win on Deity, IIRC, before subsequent patches made this virtually impossible.

                  In spite of some built in obstacles in Civ IV, I have enjoyed the challenge of OCC at Monarch and above, but may give it up after trying out all the possibilities and different approaches.

                  I have not founded any religions or converted to any yet in my OCC games. My experience with it is very limited, but from what I have surmised, religion would not be very helpful to the OCC player playing the Space Race. Being an unbeliver also helps to avoid the negative hits that the "wrong" religions can cause. I usually go for Free Religion for the 10% beaker boost anyways, when it becomes available. The other religious trait that looks promising is Pacifism, which might be especially good if coupled with a Philosophical leader and the National Epic.

                  There are still many viable OCC combinations to test out and have fun trying!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    A dedicated GP Settlement strategy might work out well. After a Scientist for an Academy, settle basically everything else. Try mostly for Scientists and Engineers.

                    I think EXP can be just as good as FIN. Especially if going heavy Specialists for GP, thus more Farms and less Cottages. EXP gives you 2 extra health, that's 2 extra pop for most of the game. 2 extra Towns being worked would give about the same commerce as FIN will.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Some of my notes:

                      1) Leader traits

                      Ind is simply great. So as Phi. Due to mutual exclusive of each other and so many key wonders in ancient era, though, I rate Ind above Phi.

                      Fin and Spi are good. In theory Fin is great but it's generally map-dependent. In my experiences, it is more often than not that you can get only a few plots generating two or more commerce without sacrifice too much production. Spi is just good for minmaxxing civic strength, and that is enough.

                      Exp is soso. Surely +2 health is good, but not enough to level of above four traits. Other traits are, well, very close to no trait.

                      2) Security and diplomacy

                      Generally, if Montezuma is in game, you are always insecure. It is adviced to have a strong force to repeal his attacks (not hard if you don't mind to sacrifice in some other facets), or just start a new game.

                      If there's still room to expand, or there's barbarian cities left on your continent, you are safe. After that, either a sizeful defensive force or share state religion with neighbor will do. If all civs on the continent share the same religion and they have not many things to do with outlander, though, you need a force.

                      Always give in to demands and help-requests in early game. Nothing tradable is too vital in this phase, yet.

                      Be friend with at least one of your strong neighbor, and iron/coal trader in middle to late game. Convert to their religion if needed. You need a close friend to protect you, and iron/coal to build railroad and keep ironworks working.

                      Buy iron and coal at whatever cost (while still maintaining 100% science, that is), if you don't have them. trade away your luxuries after globe theater, for as many health resources as possible. Even trades like cow for rice are useful, as long as not trade with your friend's worst enemy or you are in dire need of health.

                      3) Tech and wonder

                      The Bureaucracy beeline is perhaps best strategy. If a great scientist is generated in the process, great; if not, fine as well. You will be the most powerful civ, production and research wise, by the time if the strategy successes.

                      Then backfill Pyramids (must), Great Lighthouse, Alphabet and Colossus. Great Library is yours, too, as AIs usually keep alphabet (and so, literature) a low priority.

                      After that, it depends on current situation. If you need a force now, go machinery and train macemen. If you have the chance, grab Taoism/Christrian/Islam. If not either, go directly to education, for serious research boost (Oxford university). Medieval wonders aren't must-haves, so it is a good time to catch up building and military,

                      In late renaissance to early industrial era, avoid scientific method as long as possible! Even the great scientist that comes with physics won't make up the loss of the Great Library, let alone monasteries. And you want Ironworks and railroad online as soon as possible.

                      The goal of industrial era and early modern age is beeline to the Internet. As long as you get Ironworks and railroad online, and not sacrifice production too much, the bottleneck now is speed of research. So the earlier the Internet completed, the better, even if it means delay of Apollo program.

                      The Space Elevation generally doesn't worth to be built, except for denying it to AI and have great engineer(s) standing by. As for space race itself, all I can say is, good luck.

                      4) Civics and Great People

                      Representation and Bueraucracy are obvious. Serfdom and Free market are best for most time as well. Only religion civic choice worth consideration. For Spi leader it's also obvious - use whatever civic to meet the need of current stage. For non-Spi leader, I usually run Orgnized Religion when building early wonders and buildings, then change to Pacifism for great people and stick to it. Free Religion's 10% sciense bonus isn't good enough comparing to huge diplomatic plus of share state religion, IMO, unless, of course, your neighbor friend and your iron/coal trader have different state religion.

                      The prophets to Shrine, the first scientist for academy, the engineers may save for wonders, all others join the city. Every three beakers count.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Okay, thanks Aeson and Risa for your ideas. Now I have many things to try out and compare.

                        Since my last post I played a quick Emperor game using Elizabeth. I only got a few parts built before losing the space race. The Ai were in more wars than in my previous game.

                        I mostly got scientists as GP's. The first one always builds the Academy, of course, and then the others I joined to the city. I also got 3 stupid artists and 1 engineer, (too late to rush a useful wonder).

                        Without Industrious, I skipped the Pyramids to make sure I got the Great Lighthouse first. I missed out on the Great Library. I did okay research-wise, but really missed Industrious for wonder building, which seemed to take forever. Part of the reason was that I was short on hammers, too, though!

                        I got a lot of GP's this game, but not impressively more than I usually manage when not trying for them so hard. I think the escalating cost of each new Great Person slows down the rate of their accumulation too much.

                        I really missed the Pyramids, one main reason being is that they usually guarantee a Great Engineer as my first GP. This means a very good shot at the Great Library very early, which is a nice boost. I did better in my previous Emperor game as the Chinese in research.

                        In my last game, I started with a four tile island, and was happy to find 2 clams, a fish and a crab within my city radius! This was good for food, research and helped a bit more in health, too. I never built a worker until I needed lumbermills! I think I will try another game from this position, just to see if any improvements can be made. If others are curious, I will attach the start I used.

                        One odd thing in this last game, was that I never built any military units, but was never attacked! Strange! I switched to Pacifism when it became available, and am wondering if Pacifists are left alone by the AI? Hmm! Worth trying again, and worth testing for!

                        So far my tentative conclusion is that Philosophical is not as good as Industrious. I am going to take another look at Expansive, too, and maybe revive Frederick!
                        Attached Files

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Aeson
                          I think EXP can be just as good as FIN. Especially if going heavy Specialists for GP, thus more Farms and less Cottages. EXP gives you 2 extra health, that's 2 extra pop for most of the game. 2 extra Towns being worked would give about the same commerce as FIN will.
                          Oh, one more note:

                          I am liking Archipelago maps, since I want to be on the coast for OCC games. I tend to get a lot of coastal tiles this way, enough to easily outnumber land tiles. FIN is giving me a lot more extra commerce than is usually found on starts with mostly land tiles, since each coastal tile gives 3 commerce for free. I like that, especially on tiles where I'm also getting extra food from clams, fish and crabs.

                          The only big minus here is lack of hammers, but I've never seen too many of these on farms, either!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I don't see the reason preferring the Great Lighthouse over the Pyramids. The Great Lighthouse will net you 6 to 12 commerce. That is 2 to 4 specialists bonus beakers in representation. You will have more than 4 GP during this phase, let alone 2 free scientists from the Great Library. Sure, the Pyramids "obsolete" earlier than the Great Lighthouse, but the overall gain still favors to the Pyramids, IMO.

                            Edit: I forgot Bueraucracy bonus for commerce. With that in calculation, it is about 3 to 6 specialists bonus. Still not enough to change the balance, though.
                            Last edited by Risa; November 28, 2005, 23:21.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              On a OCC game, don't you want hammers over commerce?

                              Obviously being able to tech fast is important. But the higher your production the more wonders you will get, and the sooner you'll get them, and other buildings.

                              And being the first to get rocketry is pretty much useless if it takes you forever to build a spaceship.

                              Archipelago maps are great for commerce, absolutely. But your production will typicly be very low. And the commerce from coastal tiles is fixed, if you spam cottages you'll have more commerce in the long run.

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