OCC (One City Challenge) at Monarch and above

[EscapedGoat]

I think your conclusions are a bit premature Solo. You can't really compare a game where you go for Lighthouse to a game where you go for Pyramids. The difference in outcome could be just as much due to that one thing rather than the industrious/philosophical traits. Especially if you were low on shields in the latter game!

Besides, starting location has so much to say for a OCC game, it's allmost impossible to compare 2 different strategies if you do not have the exact same starting locations.

Industrious civs will build wonders 50% faster than non industrious civs. It follows that in a multiplayer game, the industrious player will beat the philosophical player to the pyramids 100% of the time, given identical starting locations and optimal play(i.e chopping when neccessary, etc.). Like you pointed out, that usually means the industrious player can grab the great library as well with the first great engineer. So yeah, industrious is really good. also remember that you can build all national wonders in your OCC city, so industrious is really powerfull to this end too.

[solo]

Risa,

I am still experimenting with different ideas and approaches. After what I observed in the last game my preference has shifted back to the Pyramids as the best wonder to build first. With Industrious I have a good shot at getting both the Pyramids and the GL, and if the first GP is an Engineer, that nets me the Great Library, too. I did get all 3 in my first Emperor level game. When I have a chance later today I will post an attachment of that start.

Diadem,

Yes, lack of hammers (and cities, by the way!) is a real problem at the end when trying to build SS parts quickly. When I start building parts I convert as much as possible to hammers, even sacrificing population if it gains me more production. By the time Rocketry is reached, quick research is no longer necessary, since the remaining techs that are required are sure to be picked up before parts are completed.

Again, this is another reason for preferring Industrious and a start that has a few hills within the city radius. While it's still important to get to Rocketry ASAP, to get a jump on the AI on SS parts, Apollo takes a long time to build without Industrious. With Archipelago, you can still get a decent number of good land tiles along with coastal access, so I still prefer that map style.

Ecaped Goat,

Yes, I agree with what you say. I tend to jump to conclusions too quickly and will try to stay open to various possibilities.

I hope to see some others giving OCC a try at Monarch or Emperor. Later today I will attach the start I used that allowed me to get 3 early wonders. I may try another game myself, using it and would like to see what some others are able to do with it.

Thanks to all so far for the good advice.

[Risa]

Solo, the map of your last game is just evil!

Spoiler:

France and Spain each is on a one-city island, the same as player. That makes their early game almost OCC-ish, i.e., no need to explore landmass, no barbarian to deal with, and no where to plant city. In fact, Spain was indeed run an OCC through the game! That explains the ultra-early Oracle building by them, which completely ruins my early game strategy (bureaucracy beeline).

Russia and Inca share a tiny continent that can hold four cities. Russia get three. And without doubt, they became the world power, having a huge tech lead from medieval to the end.

Judging by abundant food around, I chose to chase Hinduism, to bump up happiness. That is, using sea tiles until discover mythicism and polytheism. It succeeded.

Then I researched priesthood and writing. 3 fishing boats got into position at the same time I discover writing. The code of law would take 20ish turns to research, while I can built Oracle in 17 turns. So I chose to build a hindu temple, to bump happiness to 6. As soon as population grew to 6, I check avoid growth and emphasis hammer. At that time Oracle would be finished a few turns after discover code of law. All seemed good.

And then I was told the Oracle was finished somewhere else when my project had 12 more turns to go. It drove me mad. I founded Confucianism, but civil service was obviously out of reach.

All other ancient wonders were out of reach as well, due to low hammer production. I got a row of great prophets thanks to my priest specialists, which helped alot with hammer production. I settled the first four into city, only used the fifth to build a shrine - by that time, the city had habor and aqueduct built, could and need to support more priests for production. I did got the Great Library, even I was not the first to discover alphabet.

But the game was already doomed. Russia was ahead of me almost entire era, other people except France and Spain are half an era ahead as well. Spain was even more backward than me, while France always had a bad relation with me, and even a short war inbetween, before both of us went free religion. Later in industrial era I (and France) managed to catch up with other countries, but Russia was too much ahead. Even though I got Internet in 1994, I could not change the outcome. Russia had two third of their ship built at that time. That ship was launched in 2005, while I only completed the first part by then.

Conclusion: Never play an OCC in small island setting!

[Jamski]

Actually I just won an OOC on Monarch on Small Islands last night after reading this thread.

Elizabeth (Phil/Fin), nice coastal start next to cows and plains/hills with clams and fish offshore and the rest of my small island forested. The hills next to London turned out to have iron, which was a nice production boost, and there was Marble just along a few tiles, which I hooked up as soon as possible.

The AI seemed to get involved in a series of crazy island hopping wars with each other while I just got my head down, stuffed religion, and aimed to get as many GPs as possible, which all got ploughed back into the city (running Caste System / Representation, clearly)

My first 5 GPs were Great Prophets (great profits, more like! They multiply up to 15 gold and 8 hammers EACH with all the buildings in) and the extra hammers they provided were VERY useful, especially combined with the Marble, to get all the wonders a guy could want.

Parthenon, Philosophical, Pacifist, National Epic, lots of wonders and specialists... I had SO MANY great leaders it was sick. I held off on Chemistry as long as I dared to get the GP bonus as long as I could, and it paid off with a launch in about 1922. The Egyptians had just started their spaceship.

[solo]

Risa,

I play with what's given me, to see what I can do with it, and agree the start was not that great. Here is a better one, that provides enough shields, though not quite as much food.

Jamski,

Nice game with a very different approach. A Monarch win in OCC is very good. Could you be persuaded to attach a save of the starting position if you have it? I'd like to try Elizabeth again with it or something similar.

[amicus curiae]

Re: OCC (One City Challenge) at Monarch and above

Originally posted by solo
If other players are spending time on OCC games at the higher difficulty levels and would like to share their ideas and suggestions here, it would be appreciated.

I have been playing mostly OCC games as well. I have hoping to find someone else to compare notes with. I have been trying to win at immortal for some time now. I have come extremely close but never won yet. That is why I keep playing.

Originally posted by solo
First, I’ll list a few ground rules I have adopted for my own games so far when making selections from the Custom Game Setup screen:

1) The Civ and leader chosen are optional.

2) The default number of random AI opponents is used.

3) The type of map used is optional. I have tried several different types in my games so far, seeing advantages and disadvantages with each kind used.

4) I have been using the Standard game speed.

5) The only option I have been selecting in the next section is OCC (One City Challenge).

6) Although I have been playing for a Space Race win myself, all other victory options have been left open as options for the AI opponents. (However, with the changes to latter tech costs and space ship parts in the first patch, I might turn off the time limit in future games).

I agree with all these. I assume you are playing standard size map? The size is a big factor as well. I would say standard size continents, standard number of ai civs, standard speed, space race victory should be the standard for OCC games. Smaller maps I have found to be much easier. Same goes for all island maps.


I agree that Ind/Fin is the way to go.


What about wonders in order of importance? I would say Gl and Pyramids are essential. But what else?

[solo]

I guess GL could mean either Great Lighthouse or Great Library, come to think of it. Which one did you mean?

I have not tried Immortal yet, but coming close at that level seems very good to me. Can you provide more details about that game?

Are you playing with the 1.09 patch?

Besides the Space Elevator, there are not too many other World Wonders I go after until Apollo. I am very happy to get the Pyramids, and both GL's.

As for National Wonders, I'll build the National Epic to boost the GP rate.

I must get back and try another game. Keep trying at Immortal, and good luck with that!

[amicus curiae]

Oh yeah I mean Great Library. I think that and pyramids are very important. Great litghthouse is also very good for a coastal city. I also assume you will play only coastal cities as well?

I have been playing on immortal since before the patch, but now I am playing with the patch. At this level getting the important early wonders becomes a major problem. You really have to go for them immediately.

I have come close several times at immortal. The key is early wonders. I also like beelining for beurocracy. That is key in any OCC. Beelining for civics can be pretty helpful in a OCC. I ususally try to go for universal to rush things, and then switch to representation to get great leaders. I always go for beurocracy early and stay there the entire game. I also beeline to pacifism if possible and stay there the entire game. For economy I guess it's free market until you get environmentalism. And for labour, well it's not too important either way.

I would suggest rushing to beurocracy as soon as possible and see how you do. I have had success this way

Also tech trading is obviously a big part of my strategy. You can usually trade the more advanced techs for several less valuable ones.

[Yosh]

I've never played an OCC game, but it occurred to me that perhaps a viable strategy would be to try and found as many religions as possible, get your shrines, and spread those religions around like a crazy man?

not only do you get to make the AI's friends with you by giving them their religion (in one way or another), but you get mucho culture/income from the shrines!

[amicus curiae]

The problem with that is that culture is irrelevant in OCC games. If anything it is better to have less culture so that you don't get attacked as often. Also, money is not really a concern either. You end up with so many great leaders that even at 100% research rate you still make money. So the shrines wouldn't really be vital. Also, building missionaries is usually not important enough in a OCC given your limited production capacity.

Although getting good allies is crucial to a OCC game and that would be a good way to do it.

[Yosh]

hmm yes culture and such aren't important, but the income thing -- that goes straight into science research (if you're running at 100%), AND is modified by market/bank/etc..., unless I'm mistaken?

[amicus curiae]

Originally posted by Yosh
hmm yes culture and such aren't important, but the income thing -- that goes straight into science research (if you're running at 100%), AND is modified by market/bank/etc..., unless I'm mistaken?

I think you are mistaken. I think shrines generate gold, not trade. So it just goes strait into gold rather than research and is not modified by banks.

[amicus curiae]

Another thing to consider would be a strategy that avoided the production of great artists. Anything else is much better than great artists. If you could have a OCC strategy that produced only prophets and scientists you could probably do pretty well.

[solo]

Amicus,

I usually go for the Globe Theater before heading for Civil Service to keep my city growing.

Do you go to Civil Service first?

I nod my head in agreement with your other comments, so far.

[Diadem]

I've started my first OCC game on monarch today. Playing as elizabeth on a standard sized tiny islands map.

I'm doing pretty well. Mansa Musa is still ahead of me in points, but he doesn't seem to be ahead in techs. 2 others are about equal. I've got two strong allies in the game, tightly bound to me by judaism which I managed to found.

I started next to a stone resource, some nice hills, but no seafood. I went for masonry immidiately, and with the stones I could take pyramids with ease. After that I built Stonehenge in 4 turns, I had nothing else to build anyway. I founded judaism, and also got The Panthenon, Great Lighthouse and despite not getting any engineers the Great Library. So far so good.

Met some other civs, spread judaism to two of them. So far no luck with the others. Mansa Musa turned out to be the leader of the pack, and his relationship with me quickly went downhill. When one of my friends asked me to declare I thought "what the heck" and went along.

I've been at war with him ever since. The other civs have made peace again ever since, but he bluntly refuses peace with me unless I pay tribute, which I won't.

Strange thing is, he hasn't attacked me at all yet. I've sunk a few of his ships, pillages some seafood, but no land attacks yet. It's a quiet and very, very, long war. But I am immune to war weariness anyway (only one city with a Globe Theater) so I don't mind.

I'm building missionaries now (nothing else to do. Built every single useful building :P). I'm currently researching steel. I'm wondering if I should beeline for rocketry or sidestep a bit to get Steam Power and Scientific Method - hopefully revealing some coal or oil in my territory. Then I can give my military some punch.

Any advice here?

How does this game work with wonders getting obsolete by the way. In the old civs if anybody discovered a tech the wonder went obsolete. But in this game, I've never seen any message about wonders of mine going obsolete. Do I get to keep the Great Library even if others research Scientific Method while I don't?