OCC (One City Challenge) at Monarch and above

[Arrian]

Have you guys been using the Oracle - Civil Service slingshot at all? It seems perfect for OCC. Bureacracy, after all, cannot be any more powerful than when you've only got the 1 city! If it's executed just so, you get the very early Academy too...

Just curious. I'm amazed (as I was in CivIII when people were doing this stuff) at some of the stuff you guys are able to do with just 1 city.

-Arrian

[solo]

Yes, at intermediate levels, but I have not been able to research Code of Laws fast enough in subsequent games at higher levels.

If I slow down the Oracle long enough to learn CoL, the AI have always beat me to the wonder, so I use the Oracle as a mini-slingshot to CoL or some other tech that takes a long time to research.

In OCC games at the highest levels, I've concluded that's it's better to get the Oracle ASAP and make some use out of it than to let an AI build it first and move ahead with it.

[Arrian]

Right, that makes sense. Could use the Oracle for CoL, or maybe for Metal Casting (requires a bit of a beeline there, too, though) for a forge & Colossus (if your city is coastal).

-Arrian

[Diadem]

Actually Civil Service as less useful than you'd think in an OCC game.

The commerce bonus works over raw commerce your city produces. But that typicly won't be a lot. Your focus will be on food and hammers. My science is produced by my specialists. The hammer bonus does work over all the hammers you have, even those from specialists. So that's better. But I don't normally lack for hammers on OCC games.

I'm not saying bureaucracy is not worth it. Obviously it's the best civic in that branch for OCC games. But it's not an absolute priority. Of course, Civil Service is needed to get to Liberalism, so that's another good reason to get it quickly. But still I'd rather have some extra religions. Philosophy is a prereq for liberalism as well, anyway

Anyway, on monarch and above, a CS slingslot is just too risky in my opinion. And it delays you too much in getting the worker techs and bronze working and the like. So my usual tech for the oracle is Code of Laws.

[Diadem]

And finally my first OCC victory on emperor!

A very comfortable one, in 1944, two parts ahead of the competition. That does not sound like too much, but I was ahead of the AI all the time. And thanks to the internet I even had a techlead.

A small Great Plains map again, playing as Saladin this time. A quick game to speed things up a little (This should not affect difficulty. If anything it because slightly harder because you have less time to build military).

My starting position was almost insultingly good. 5 cows, wheat, 2 floodplains and stone in my fat cross. Iron as well, as it turned out. Cows add a lot of production, so I was going strong right from the start, having no problems with getting the wonders I wanted. Later in the game I also found coal, oil and aluminium in my cultural boundaries. Really nice to have all strategic resources for a change

Much to my surprise, I got hinduism despite researching it as my 3rd tech. Subsequently I somehow failed to get judaism. Really weird. Hatshepsut founded buddhism, and after I switched to this she was sweet all game long. Peter was highly annoying, but luckily the other civs agreed with that. Taking him out was a lot of fun and made sure I did not get into war with the others. Near the end of the game I terribly neglected my military, but I had a lot of plusses with all remaining civs, so I trusted it would work out, as long as I was nice and gave them some free stuff every now and then. This worked very well.

Despite being 1 or 2 techs behind for most of the game, I was first to to liberalism, first to economics and first to physics. The AI does not seem to care for them at all. Teching to the internet ensured a techlead for me, and after that things were easy.

Finally a emperor victory. And it wasn't even that hard, looking back. I guess my starting position helped a lot. But it's not my fault the game keeps throwing these kind of starts at me Great Plains maps are pretty resource heavy anyway, the other civs all had 3-6 resources in their fat cross as well. Another reason to play them at OCC.

[solo]

I agree with Diadem about conservative use of the mini-slingshot, and also think Civil Service may have lower priority than Philosophy, which allows Pacifism and the Angor Wat.

I think there are several good ways to go with the mini-slingshot:

Obviously CoL is good, especially if it gets you to CoL first for Confucianism.

Also Alphabet is good, allowing Literature which provides the Great Library and the National Epic.

And as Arrian points out, going for a forge early is another good option.

Much depends on your starting position and what the AI do.

At the beginning of OCC games, I put a priority on research and anything that hastens the appearance of Great Persons.

Nice game Diadem!!! Emperor wins on land based maps are very impressive, especially with the completion date that you achieved. Very early!!! Congrats on a fine game. The first win is probably the toughest and most satisfying.

Do you happen to have any saves of the game that you could post. The start looks especially suitable for OCC, and it would be nice to add it to our growing collection here.

I just played another game, this time trying as Victoria. No go, this time, as I could not even try for the Pyramids (no stone around), but I did not do too bad, coming in a few parts short in the end behind Mao who really came on strong. I had 8 parts built before he started, but again I'm thwarted by the Chinese (Qin in the previous game). I'll give it a few more trys with a non-industrious leader. Perhaps Peter of Russia will have a chance.

[Merzbow]

Is the Pyramids really all that? Representation doesn't seem to be all that - happy is not a problem with Globe Theater, and those specialists are better served working Towns it seems. But the Great Engineer GPs perhaps cinch the deal, no? I love games where I get the Pyramids and Chichen Itza because of the huge # of Great Engineers I get.

[solo]

It's the 3 beaker boost for specialists plus the fact that more specialists mean more GP's produced is what makes Representaton so good. The extra 3 happy guys really helps near the beginning, when happiness is hard to come by, too. And as you have noticed, the more great Engineers the better. I don't think I've won an OCC game yet without having this wonder.

[Merzbow]

I think Gandhi is real good OCC. Two Fast Workers chopping simultaneously make short work of the Pyramids. Plus Spiritual is undervalued; every turn of Anarchy sets your entire game back one turn, add it all up and you're saving maybe 10 turns.

[Risa]

In my experience, CS slingshot can be done reliably on monarch level. On emperor level it is possible if following a very strict beeline. I haven't got one success on immortal level yet.

[Diadem]

Representation is immensely important. Early game it basicly adds 3 full population to your city. The difference between a size 5 city and a size 8 city is big. And three beakers per specialist is very good. Remember these beakers are also added to Super Specialists. And you'll have many, many of those near the end of the game. I almost never build towns on OCC games. I'd rather have farms so I can run extra specialists.

By the way, the last couple of games, I've added a new trick near the end. By that time specialists become less important, since with the internet your sciencerate isn't vital anymore, and you won't get many GPs anymore anyway.

So once I'm getting close Fiber Optics I start putting specialists back to work on my land. This causes a jump in city size. Then I start reworking land tiles, building watermills and even workshops in favor of farms. This causes a massive jump in production speed. Basicly from a specialist-optimized city you switch to a production-optimized city. It's a logical trick, but one that is also easy to forget. And it can really cut into the number of turns your spaceship takes to build.

That latest game of mine, I was doing 97 raw hammers by the end. 388 hammers with bonusses. No AI can keep up with that. I'll include the start and a 1940 save (2 turns before my win) at the end of my post.

Two more things. First about slingshots. I guess if you really beeline for a slingshot you can do a CS one even at high difficulty levels. But it's risky. And I don't want to sacrifice that many lower techs to do a direct beeline. Animal Husbandry and Masonry are very important to me. Much more important than Civil Service. I also want to be first to judaism (buddhism and hinduism are usually taken by the time i start going for religions), and i like some military techs too. By the time I start going for Code of Laws I'm lucky if I get it first even with a oracle slingshot

And do you guys really think forges are so important? I almost always prefer the 1 health above the 25% production. I frequently find myself building a forge a few turns before I get to rocketry. In fact I only build it earlier when I want a wonder that requires a forge.

[Diadem]

Ah yes I'd post my save. I'll give you both the start and a save 2 turns before the end, in 1940.

[solo]

Diadem,

97 raw hammers is huge. I'll have to take a look. Thanks for posting the save. I add hammers at the end, too, but have not been as diligent as you. I usually have enough hammers to build SS parts as soon as they become available, but more hammers is always better at that stage, so I will follow your lead here and add more.

Another thing I do near the end when I no longer expect too many specialists is switch from Pacifism to Free Religion, just to shave a few turns off getting those last few techs I need before building the Internet.

I like to get Great Engineers, so disagree about delaying the forge, which lets me run an Engineer specialist. If this gives me a few extra Great Engineers, I think it's worth giving up 1 health. However, I'll delay Ironworks, a Factory and power plant until just before building Apollo.

Risa,

I agree that the CS slingshot becomes too risky a proposition above Emperor. The Oracle shouldn't be wasted or handed over to an opponent.

Merzbow,

I also like Gandhi the best now, since he also increases one's chances of founding an early religion. Other non-religious leaders may miss winning by 1 SS part becuase of those turns spent in Anarchy, too!

[Diadem]

The best leaders are most definitely Ghandi or Saladin.

I'm not sure which of the two is better.

[amicus curiae]

I still think Qin can be pretty good. But I am starting to favour Ghandi as well...