OCC (One City Challenge) at Monarch and above

[amicus curiae]

solo - how did you manage no artists? Also, Are you playing with only 6 opponents? I though 7 was standard?

[amicus curiae]

Oh yeah, what about the new patch? Are there any implications for OCC play? I won't be able to play the game until the new year...

[fluffyflyingpig]

The Good:
Forests give 0.5 health =)
Environmentalism moved to Medicine.
Praetorians: 40->45 hammers

The Bad:
increased late-game tech costs (!!!)
tech cost rebalancing
improved city attack AI (!)
ai stays at war longer (!!!)

[solo]

Welcome to Skatterbone!

In most of my games the AI build the UN before they are over. Once in a while, I also get a bad resolution passed against me, but at other times they pass favorable ones.

I abstain in all UN victory votes (as if my votes mattered!), and so far have not been the victim of a diplomatic win. It's probably just a matter of luck.

Amicus,

I meant 7 opponents, which I guess is the default on a standard map.

I installed the new patch, and like the 0.5 for forests and earlier Environmentalism, of course, but even more to our advantage are the increased tech costs, I think.

These increased costs slow down the AI, and in one game I have tried so far, I was able to catch up and take the lead in several techs the AI had not picked up yet. I had 8 parts built and was first to Fusion, at which time Montezuma decided to attack and wipe me out.

I am really starting to dislike Montezuma a lot!

I think I would have won this deity game on a standard size Islands map if I had not been eliminated, because my start was not terrific, nor did I luck into any Coal, Iron, Copper or Aluminum. Even so, I managed my best SS part lead yet in a deity game.

I played this one with the "no cheating" option selected, which I think should now become the standard for our games here.

[fluffyflyingpig]

The best part of the new patch is the "regenerate map" menu option, which saves a LOT of time when trying to find good starts.

[solo]

Originally posted by amicus curiae
solo - how did you manage no artists? Also, Are you playing with only 6 opponents? I though 7 was standard?

Just luck about the artists. First time in an OCC game for me.

I checked default # of opponents for a standard island map, and it is what I thought, 6 opponents. When you add me, I guess the total is seven players.


fluffyflyingpig,

Yes, that generate option is a very nice addition, although you have to wait a few seconds. Beats going back to the previous start menu, though.

I also noticed another change in my first game. Late game turns seemed to take longer to execute! So much for their mermory optimizations! I think my gig of RAM is now being under-utilised.

[fluffyflyingpig]

>.< The regenerate map option disapears after the first turn. I'm trying to get another few duel Deity wins (2 so far w/ Cyrus vs. Gandhi) but if No Cheating is enabled I cant find out if i have horses untill 10 turns into the game. I think I'm going to use the world builder to check for horses to save myself some time.

Additionally, the increased civic upkeeps are rather annoying on Deity. >.<

[fluffyflyingpig]

Bah, humbug. The new patch seems to have overloaded my vid card; I had to turn the visual settings down to medium to play. The patch also changed all my old saves to Epic speed, when I had played them at Normal speed. Increased civic costs also seem to make Deity considerably harder. This is the first time I ever had units strike!

My experience with OCC, Duel, Deity as Cyrus. Success seems to be to VERY map dependant. You can win though, if the map generator cooperates.

Optimal strategy: Tech AH->Wheel->Mining->BW->IW-> 0% tech. Worker first, then hook up horses. If you don’t have horses, you're doomed, restart now. Queue up a warrior as a token city garrison, a rax, then spam Immortals like mad. Mass troops on the boarder and invade when you have a 4-5 Immortals or a chance to nab a worker. Pillage everything in sight, then start razing. With some map generator luck, he AI should fold.

You'll need to wait till you have a numerical advantage to take most cities, but Immortals can kill archers easily in a 1:1 fight, and the AI tends to send troops out of their fortified towns to be slaughtered fairly regularly. Be sure to take advantage of the Immortals' ability to fortify. As long as you cut off the AI's copper and/or horses early, you should be able to crush them. Chop all the trees you see, Exp gives you all the health you need. Going up against a peacenik like Gandhi is good, since you can get a cease fire whenever when ever you want so your units have a chance to heal after razing a city. If the AI gets copper early or has too much room to expand, you'll die, even with horses hooked up.

This srat commits completly to the blitz, but it has been very successful for me. Just turning off research after IW generally gives enough time to finish off the AI before you're troops strike. If you delay too long, the AI will get copper or iron hooked up and you have no chance. If the AI has no copper or horses, it gets a LOT easier.

[solo]

I've finally been able to produce a SS win on deity, beating Capac by one part in 1995, but there is one minor issue in that I would have lost had I not replayed two portions of the game.

However, I wanted to see if it was possible to win at deity with this promising standard size map start.

I played it with the "no cheating" option turned on, guaranteeing a random and undoctored start and also preventing any "assistance" during the game through Worldbuilder.

In this one I lagged in the beginning, but was able to pick up two early wonders, the Pyramids and the Great Library.

My first beeline was to Literature, for the GL and the National Epic and then I headed for Philosophy for Pacifism.

I generated quite a few GP's, starting off with 6 scientists in a row. This helped me get to Liberalism first and later on I also got to Physics first for yet another scientist.

Then instead of the direct route I normally take to Computers, I stopped at Medicine in order build a hospital and make use of Environmentalism. This allowed me to grow a little more to full size and allowed me to run many science specialists with my excess food.

After Computers, I went the usual route to Rocketry and completed all casings and thrusters before any one got started. Even so, Capac of the Incans came on strong and I needed both the Internet and the Space Elevator to get my parts done first.

As I said in a previous post, I think the increased tech costs slow down the deity AI enough to make wins quite possible, maybe even routine. Instead of going deep like we like to do into the tech tree, they spread around their research waste a lot of time learning unnecessary techs.

In fact, the increased techs costs may make it harder to win at lower levels than at deity, but this remains to be seen as players try new games with the new patch.

One change not good for us OCCers in SS races is that the AI seem more likely win the wars they declare on us. One of my replayed sections of this game was needed to beef up my defenses enough to survive a tough war with Isabella. Wars are no longer a matter of trying to hold on for 10 turns with minimal defenses, like I was used to doing before this patch.

The other replay was made near the end to optimize my way to the end of the tech tree ahead of Capac. Other than these two changes, most of the game went according to plan and schedule, so I am happy with the result.

[fluffyflyingpig]

Nice work solo! Fine game. Good Lord, Hatty got the oracle in 2200 BC?!

I guess I'll try the OCC at lower levels to see what the patch did.

[Merzbow]

Sigh... How is one supposed to win on Monarch when the AI launches in 1927? Is everyone winning on small maps where the AI has much less of a commerce/production advantage? This is post-patch so apparently something has been done to unnerf the space race.

[Merzbow]

Map size doesn't matter, they are launching in the 1920's even on small maps. Something happened in the patch to make the space race much easier for AIs.

[solo]

What kind of map are you using?

On the island and archipelago maps I've been playing on the deity AI are not doing this more quickly than before the patch.

[Merzbow]

Inland sea, and Pangaea. It's also much harder to start long-lasting world wars now. AIs are MUCH smarter at taking cities now so even small advantages over their opponents will result in the 'unpopular' AIs being knocked out of the game very quickly. Then by 1700 everyone is happy with each other and soon the whole world has defensive pacts. Then in 1820's Mao, Cyrus, or Mansa does Apollo, UN shortly after that, Free Speech decreed shortly after that. Nothing you can do.

[solo]

I would have thought that increased tech costs would have delayed the AI even more at lower levels, but once they stop fighting and concentrate on research and a SS win (as it looks like from your description) they can still move very quickly through the tech tree.

You might try an islands map without any small islands and see if there is any difference in how the game plays out.

I am trying a balanced map starts now on deity, but whenever an AI decides to attack me, it's all over quickly as they come with huge stacks of superior units! I have to figure out how to avoid being attacked!