The Pyramids

[Dog of Justice]

Free Market is generally the best economic choice. It always gives me a load of money and almost always beats Mercantilism + Representation for science output to boot.

If you are doing well enough compared to your opponents, Free Market isn't very impressive... but then again, in that case you should be able to win anyway. So when in doubt it's certainly a solid choice as long as you have the right Open Borders agreements.

I still favor Merc/Rep midgame and State Property/Universal Suffrage endgame, though.

[cal_01]

Originally posted by Drachasor


Just go get Genetics for a +3 health bonus to all of your cities. Almost all the time that's sufficient at that point in the game (you'll likely have hospitals, aquaducts, and grocers in your big cities).

Free Market is generally the best economic choice. It always gives me a load of money and almost always beats Mercantilism + Representation for science output to boot.

-Drachasor

I typically go for State Property. The reduction in maintenance alone is miles ahead what Free Market can give me.

[Dinner]

Pyramids never expire, give you lots of free engineers (which means you'll get more wonders), allow you to switch to universal sufferage which gives you +1 hammers to all of your cities, and can rush it by chopping down trees. It is hands down the best early wonder in the game.

[Drachasor]

Originally posted by cal_01


I typically go for State Property. The reduction in maintenance alone is miles ahead what Free Market can give me.

I'll try that out my next game.

When I made my free trade statement it was based off switching in game.

I went from Representation/Mercantilism to Universal Suffrage/Free Trade and my income and science both went up. I was already a dominant power in the game too.* I'll have to experiment to see how this varies based on civ size and development.

-Drachasor

*It seems really odd, I know. I certainly expected my science to drop.

[cal_01]

I believe it gives Windmills and Workshops +1 food. That alone makes it pretty good too!

[Drachasor]

Originally posted by cal_01
I believe it gives Windmills and Workshops +1 food. That alone makes it pretty good too!

Yeah, but if your science is at 90% or 100% then it won't increase your research rate. Since it only lowers the cost of things, helps you lower taxes to increase science. If you already have really low taxes then this bonus is small. It would make it easier to upgrade units and rush-buy things however. For me though, in most games, it probably would be a science-hit. Hmm, I'll mess around with it some though.

-Drachasor

[cal_01]

Originally posted by Drachasor


Yeah, but if your science is at 90% or 100% then it won't increase your research rate. Since it only lowers the cost of things, helps you lower taxes to increase science. If you already have really low taxes then this bonus is small. It would make it easier to upgrade units and rush-buy things however. For me though, in most games, it probably would be a science-hit. Hmm, I'll mess around with it some though.

-Drachasor

That's true; the research rate won't be affected. However, I typically look at things in terms of how much gold I'm gaining/losing a turn, since I'm a heavy gold-rusher no matter which Civ I'm playing.

And I prefer workshops on plains tiles (though, I really should put them on grassland), since I can get an easy 3-4 minerals. Windmills are bit crazier since you can potentially get every single tile producing 2 food.

[greenday_234]

I've only been playing the game on and off for a couple weeks now so I haven't developed a solid strategy yet. Just wondering though how effective are automated workers. Do they build things in the right spot? And do they, unlike Civ 3, build them in the most efficient combo possible.

Part 2 of my question is at what point in a cities growth do you start placing specialists? In my last game I never placed any because they seemed to cut way into my growth. Is there a "right time" to place them?

[Fried-Psitalon]

All of the civics have situationally very valid uses, IMO. I've used them all - I'm not keen on Environmentalism, I'll admit - to good effect.

Police State/Vasallage/Theocracy means you better duck and cover, buddy.

I actually covered this at length in the strategy guide, I think. For certain players who have very specific playstyles that they never deviate from, it may very well be that a certain civic is "useless." For players who approach the game differently or with flexibility, though, there are lots of potentially good choices.

[gentle]

One thing about Pyramids and early Representation:
It really has a tremendous impact on research, and I guess we all agree that the earlier it is used the better it is.
The problem that arises imho is that it also slows down ones growth. I usually tried to grow cities to size 5 to install 1-2 scientiest and then rush through the techs (alphabet level and above) but dedicating people to do some research as specialist drops one into a non-growth scenario (overexaggerated =P ).
One can use Great Library to dampen that effect but I started to use specialist+representation on a more moderate scale and have come to the conclusion that I dont consider the Pyramids to be uber/broken/imba/whatever ^^.
Still they remain my favourite early wonder =)

summarized:
specialists + representation slows ones growth

@greenday
sry, you made the same point so I am sort of repeating your post. But one thing, I still use specialists early on ,though on a more moderate scale- but one benefit they also give which is important (except for the +science) is the +GP points. Having Scientists (with Pyramids first there is a good chance 1st one is an engineer) can speed up research a lot too, if one is willing to sac them for tech and
the first GPs are "fast" to get with only city specializing in using specialists (oO). For me usually the one which will build/has build the Great Library. For me the Great Library is the add-on building for that approach ( "wonder-combo" )

[Dog of Justice]

Whenever I don't have to worry too much about being beaten to the Pyramids, I try to time its completion to be as close as possible to the discovery of Banking. Before that I don't think Representation gives me my money's worth for the turn of Anarchy. (Of course, if you're Spiritual, you don't have to worry about this. Also, I suppose, even if you don't immediately switch to Rep, you do accumulate some Great Engineer GPP points by completing Pyramids earlier. I'd still rather build as many other time-sensitive things before it as I can, though.)

[Blake]

I've used State property for the first time and I'm very impressed. It's all about the watermills, a financial civ watermill produces 3-2-4, compared to a farm, 4-0-1 or a cottage 2-1-8. They key is the extra food, and still decent hammers. A city on a river with watermills and a whole bunch of workshops pumps out some SERIOUS hammers. Granted you do need a relative abundance of rivers to do this, but it's a good way to make new bases productive quickly, high food, high hammers. You don't need to wait for cottages to grow. The reduction in upkeep is nice too.

[cal_01]

The only downside is that railroads don't give extra production to water/windmills.

Do you know how sick it would be if they did?

Speaking of which, the first time I built a windmill was with a financial civ. I nearly fell over when I saw the gold production (and fell over again when I had electricity!) and never looked back since.

[Diadem]

watermills are pretty good, but I don't think windmills are worth it.

If you have enough hills in your city radius, build mines there, and on the flatlands build farms if you need food, cottages otherwise. If you don't have enough hills get some workshops. On rivers, watermills are worth it. Windmills though, they just aren't. I'd rather have mines on those hills so I can afford cottages on the flatlands without killing my production.

[Blake]

Actually Windmills can be pretty good for Financial civs, since neither farms nor mines give the +1 commerce. But windmills do.

There is also the factor that with some cities, windmills are the ONLY way to grow, due to an abundance of hills.

But I do like with mines the chance of finding minable resources. And generally speaking farms+mines seems to be a better option. But there are uses for windmills...

Oh, something I forgot to mention about state property and tying it in with pyramids, is that you can reach Communism without researching many other civic techs (especially economic ones), combined with Pyramids you can get quite well rounded civics. Most useful for no tech trading of course. The pre-req for Communism are Liberalism and Scientific Method, both very useful, even essential techs. You don't need to pursue the nationialism or banking tech paths until much later.