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**alpaca** · November 23, 2005, 13:38

Well I also trade away most of my techs, simply because on Emperor and above there's no other way to keep in touch with the research elite of the AI (until the modern era they seem to always research faster than I do, no matter what).
A rule of thumb usually is to see if a tech is useful for your current situation and if it is, you go get it. I only keep techs to myself when I want to finish a wonder or do something else which requires a certain tech (like colonizing islands with Astronomy).

**Crossfire** · November 23, 2005, 18:36

I trade with everyone. I can often trade the same tech to 2 or 3 civs and backfill 5 or 6 other techs for the price of researching that one. I almost always trade beaker for beaker too. I rarely give good tech for bad unless I am getter 2 or 3 or even 4 old techs for my modern one. This gets me even farther ahead in the research race.

Usually I have beelined for something and the AIs can't use it anyway. I just wait until they are ready to trade their old stuff and keep moving into new tech to stay ahead. Eventually I will fill all the old techs for free. Also make sure you are aiming for the free tech upgrades for being the first to research a tech and use that free one to get even further ahead.

**stormwriter** · November 23, 2005, 19:06

Hmm, but the other side of the coin is that now the AI traded away some stupid old techs and got a new, GOOD one! So, now they're even with you! You did all the hard research for them! So, i know it helps everybody out, but i dont see a clear advantage for the human player to trade. (but i still do it...)

**V3nom** · November 23, 2005, 19:13

the advantage for you is there because: 1)you got the tech first, therefore gaining any benifits from the first to research it as well as being able to dictate when you traded it away 2)you can trade 1 tech that say costs 1000research points for techs from 3 different AI's worth 800.. so you make a clear 'profit' from it.

**Diadem** · November 23, 2005, 19:21

In the old civs the AI always demanded ridiculously lopsided deals on trading.

In civ4 I seem to be consistently able to trade beaker for beaker, at least against AIs who like me.

Sure a 1000 beaker tech is much more advanced than three 330 beaker techs, but it's not like it takes more time to research. You gained as many research turns as they did.

In general, trading benefits both you and the guy you trade with. Both gain. Everybody else in the world does not gain. So if there's only one AI, trading won't gain you anything. If there are 10 of them, trading is hugely advantagous, you get ahead of 9 other AIs at once. If you trade 1 technology with 10 different AIs, for a different price each time... You gain MUCH, MUCH more than everybody else.

**Crossfire** · November 23, 2005, 19:27

I also tend to work from the bottom up when trying to trade techs. That way I am most likely (at least early on) to help the losers than the winners. Only once I get a ways ahead of the other civs in techs am I pretty much limited to trading only with the top couple of civs although I am always looking for that last backfill from the slow guys. One of the advantages of getting tech trading first on a busy map is that you can trade any no one else can so this maximizes your return on investment.

**V3nom** · November 23, 2005, 19:34

Originally posted by Diadem
In the old civs the AI always demanded ridiculously lopsided deals on trading.

In civ4 I seem to be consistently able to trade beaker for beaker, at least against AIs who like me.

Sure a 1000 beaker tech is much more advanced than three 330 beaker techs, but it's not like it takes more time to research. You gained as many research turns as they did.

In general, trading benefits both you and the guy you trade with. Both gain. Everybody else in the world does not gain. So if there's only one AI, trading won't gain you anything. If there are 10 of them, trading is hugely advantagous, you get ahead of 9 other AIs at once. If you trade 1 technology with 10 different AIs, for a different price each time... You gain MUCH, MUCH more than everybody else.

dont get used to it, on higher difficulty levels the AI will only accept deals that clearly favor them.

**Diadem** · November 23, 2005, 22:12

I've only had this game for a couple of days now. Haven't had much time to try the higher difficulty levels yet. It seemed to go well on prince though.

And even if every individual deal favors the AI, given enough AIs to trade with you'll still gain.

**solo** · November 23, 2005, 22:40

I've been getting worthwhile trades on the Monarch level, and haven't noticed much difference in AI tading at Prince or Noble.

I usually only have to give the AI a slight premium to get the trades I want, usually getting a tech that costs say 2000 beakers for one worth a little more, say from 2200 to 2400. Sometimes they'll throw in what they have for gold as well, if I ask what they will give me for a tech I offer.

Getting a good tech puts you in the driver's seat and fairly even trades allow you to augment your advantage.

There are times when they want or demand a very unfair trade, but that is very often due to the fact that only one or two techs are tradeable and that these have a wide disparity in their beaker cost, i.e. the one they offer is a crummy one you have skipped and don't want and the one they want is a premium one that you've just acquired.

**V3nom** · November 23, 2005, 22:57

I've been playing at Emperor and Immortal difficulty levels. The AI does demand favorable deals each time, but as someone mentioned previously you do easily end up coming ahead if you fence your shiney new tech off to as many opponents as you can.

**Firecrak** · November 23, 2005, 23:50

While I usually trade everything I have, without regard for strategic value for as much as I can (beaker for beaker)...I find that rushing to alphabet before you have 2-3 cities of size 8-10 each is just a waste of turns. In the time it usually takes to grab alphabet with your capital at 5-8~ and 1 size 2-3 city (average of about 29-32 turns depending on civics/civ/tiles so far for me) I could have researched all the ****ty little techs I usually skip in the beginning and not have to give the computer a leg up by giving him things like writing and alphabet.

**Diadem** · November 24, 2005, 07:53

I'm not sure if it can be worth it or not. Imagine starting with a civ that has the wheel and agriculture or fishing. You can immidiately do pottery, then writing, then alphabet. Even if it's expensive, if it's your 3rd tech you should get it way before everybody else.

Now trade with everybody you find. Give them pottery and/or writing in exchange for techs. Given enough opponents you should pretty much be able to get all early techs.

You will miss out on the early religions. But you'll have an immidiate scientific lead that will certainly allow you to get the later ones.

**g_storrow** · November 24, 2005, 11:44

I have doen the bee line for alphabet and got a healthy tech lead and kept it until near riflemen. But then the AI just traded with each other and not with me say I don't like you enough or saying you are too technolgilically advanced or I dont want to give you that yet. I was slightly larger than every other nation (noble) but still got hammered in the end game tech race but still managed to complete the space race.
Should I just get 2 friends very close and ignore everyone else?

**Heroes** · November 24, 2005, 13:22

Originally posted by Diadem
I'm not sure if it can be worth it or not. Imagine starting with a civ that has the wheel and agriculture or fishing. You can immidiately do pottery, then writing, then alphabet. Even if it's expensive, if it's your 3rd tech you should get it way before everybody else.

Now trade with everybody you find. Give them pottery and/or writing in exchange for techs. Given enough opponents you should pretty much be able to get all early techs.

You will miss out on the early religions. But you'll have an immidiate scientific lead that will certainly allow you to get the later ones.

The big price for this strategy is that you don't know where are the strategetic resources: copper, iron, and with new patch, horse.

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