Huge AI Cheat! =(

[MxM]

I think it is us who cheat computer. You see, computer uses A.I. And we use N.I. - Natural Intelligence.

[Snotty]

or quick save

So is it definative that on noble level the AI plays by exactly the same rules as the human player? No freebies, no production bonus?

[Metaliturtle]

on noble (but I think all difficulties) the AI gets some bonuses against barbs. It's been explained that this makes the game about even for both sides since the AI doesn't know things like map type or Vel's Strategy Guide

[Ninja]

RTFM!!! - is all you gotta do...

[Maquiladora]

I cant believe no one had the name Ninja yet.

[Handel]

Originally posted by Metaliturtle
on noble (but I think all difficulties) the AI gets some bonuses against barbs. It's been explained that this makes the game about even for both sides since the AI doesn't know things like map type or Vel's Strategy Guide

The AI may not know Vel's guide, but it don't forget to move the units and it cannot be caught by surprise by the sneak attack from the sea. This is one of most annoying things wich happens to me. It is impossible for the human player to check all the seas around his empire turn after turn. And the AI is very keen to look for coastal cities with weak defences and to sneak bunch of galeons. So you usually have only 1 turn to organize the defences against 10-15 invading units.

[Gunter]

Originally posted by Lucilla
It's not a cheat, it's used to make the game more difficult for you.

Nope Lucilla

It is like in a chess game the CPU had suddenly one extra tower and after few moves even a an extra bishop.

I don't call it difficulty level but cheating instead.

If a pure AI is impossible to reproduce you can optimize move at maximum, this is a good way to increase difficulty,IMO.


Gunter

[padillah]

"Pure AI"?

"Why CIV is not chess" thread.

http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=143107

SSDD.

Tom P.

[LzPrst]

heres an interesting thing I observed in a prince game not long ago. I sent a spy to england that was just starting to industrialize. and I investigate their cities. most cities were size 10-14 and what do I find? half the population are scientists. in ALL their cities!!! I was shocked... now way I think. but I realized that all their cities were starving. hah! I figure they're switching between producing food and depleting the reserve in order to get boosts of scientific production.

but what I notice later is, even when out of food and starving, the cities DONT SHRINK!
one city had a food production of 20, but didnt shrink even though it wasnt really enough because they got 7!!! extra food from nowhere! I counted all their food production and I found no reason for this extra food bonus...

if thats not cheating I dont know what is...

[joncnunn]

From what your telling me, during WW II, the German player ought to have been P.O.ed by the Allied "cheat" of landing in underfended Normandy instead of Calais.

Originally posted by Handel

The AI may not know Vel's guide, but it don't forget to move the units and it cannot be caught by surprise by the sneak attack from the sea. This is one of most annoying things wich happens to me. It is impossible for the human player to check all the seas around his empire turn after turn. And the AI is very keen to look for coastal cities with weak defences and to sneak bunch of galeons. So you usually have only 1 turn to organize the defences against 10-15 invading units.

[LzPrst]

also, just remembered. the AI in the industrial era will often have 20+ units in most of their cities. how can they afford it? I dont think the AI just gets free units in the beginning, they get them throughout the game. and in lots of them. this should be verified. does anyone have the patience? throw in a few free spies in a game and observe... I'm pretty sure the AI cheats the snot out of the game...

[padillah]

Then play on a lower level. It's realy not hard logic to follow:

Don't like the rules, play a different game.

And if you say one level down isn't a challenge then you've made my argument for me.

Tom P.

[LzPrst]

@ padillah

if youve read the posts about the civ4 game from the producers, one of the things they've done is make the AI better, for example by removing obvious cheats. we are now discovering that this is not really true, except on the lowest levels and therefore WE RANT! maybe you like being lied to, but personally I find it slightly infuriating. this was a quality of civ3 that most people hated, and we were promised that the days of obvious AI cheats were over and done with. and what do we find?

one thing I discovered recently is a strong difference between older games and newer ones. I decided to be a little nostalgic and play an old sid meier classic. Railroad Tycoon. what I discovered was that the AI was quite crappy, but the game itself was quite hard. also, a look at civ1 made me realize that the old games were harder to succeed at on your own, not requiring too much from the AI. if keeping your civ afloat was the most difficult aspect of civ4, there would be no need for the AI to get free units and food. and it would also make the game more interesting.

i think a lot of the frustration of gamers today is exactly that games have become too simple and too easy, leaving the AI to be overrun by the superior human intelligence. games today rarely keep my interest for more than a few weeks, even MMORPGs havent been able to keep me interested for more than a few months. the reason? too easy = quickly boring.

make civ harder!

[amicus curiae]

I though it was common knowledge that the AI gets extra units to start. Good thing the original poster didn't play deity where the Ai gets 2 settlers, 2 workers, 2 scouts, and 6 warriors (or something like that). I think the reason that the ai can field bigger armies is due to their upkeep and production advantages, not getting more free units.

[Metaliturtle]

Think of it this way, on settler, chieftain, and warlord, the human player gets advantages over the AI, on difficulties above Noble, the AI gets advantages over humans.

We can do the whole, "Make Civ 4 more like Civ 1" B-ing and moaning thing, but all that accomplishes here is to make everyone that gets caught up in it look like a moron, if Civ 1 was better, play Civ 1.

Yes, the AI does shady things in Civ 4, but my guess is that if you play any Civ game, you will discover ways that the AI 'cheats' The thing I appreciate about Civ 4 compared to the other ones, however, is that the AI uses recon. before it does things like build a city on a resource or invade a poorly defended city.

Civ 4 is an in-depth game, which requires a multi-faceted playing style to win. The fact that the Strategy & Education forum has yet to arrive on a consensus about what to build first, even after thousands of collective hours of playtesting, seems to indicate that Civ 4 is the game that the players wanted.

We also must realize that new versions of Civ are different than a majority of games out there. For example, Madden 2004 is not much different from Madden 2005, maybe some new features and a new roster, maybe better graphics, etc. Civ games don't work like that. Civ 1, Civ 2, Civ 3, and Civ 4 are all different games almost completely. Civ 4 isn't just Civ 3 with a new paint job, it's better, with an improved AI (albeit still not as good as a human), more balanced development, and a focus on eliminating exploits.

A note on AI, as a cognitive psychology student, I take courses that emphasize artificial intelligence and its various uses. The psychological definition of AI is essentially a machine that is able to convince a person that it is not a machine. This means that it should sometimes make mistakes. This also means that it learns... (think the Terminator) If you had the best possible AI, it would learn your weaknesses cold, and exploit the crap out of them. Perhaps you don't defend your inner cities as much, an AI that could learn would quickly rush to cavalry units and decimate you from the inside out.

The fact that the AI attacks weak coastal cities is not a cheat, it is representative of good AI. If you cannot defend your cities, then don't be surprised when they are taken.