Huge AI Cheat! =(

[soulfire777]

Well, I have played about 10 games now at noble and prince level. I just discovered a HUGE AI cheat that has me really disgusted (this is on prince level):

My last game I started with an AI Civ starting only 4-5 squares away from me, so I figured I'd come right out of the gate swinging.

We found our starting cities 4 squares away (I pick a hill hehe), and I attack their warrior on turn 2 of the game and win. When I move onto their square after killing them, I see they have a SECOND free warrior unit (I only get one).

Then they found their first city, and immediately on doing so they somehow get a free THIRD warrior as well.

So by turn 2 of the game, they had THREE free warriors to my ONE (and my one is 2/3 dead from killing their first one). Nedless to say I was out of the game a couple turns later - their two extra free warriors made short work of my 1/3 remaining warrior.

I think it is just plain wrong to let the AIs cheat to this extent...getting literally 3x the military power of human starting civs.

[Lucilla]

It's not a cheat, it's used to make the game more difficult for you.

[soulfire777]

Originally posted by Lucilla
It's not a cheat, it's used to make the game more difficult for you.

You say "po-tay-to"...I say "po-tat-oh"...

The point is, getting a 3 to 1 military advantage right out of the gate is a bit steep - especially when they can start only 4-5 squares away from you.

And guess what? If you start with hunting, you get a scout instead of a warrior, giving them a 6 to 1 military advantage right out of the gate.

If you start right next to the incans whose special unit is the warrior, having them start with 3 special units and potentially only 4-5 squares away would be horrible.

[OPD]

It's not too steep, infact it's been tested to make sure it's not too steep an advantage for specific difficultly levels.

[LDiCesare]

Just play one level below and they won't have that much of an advantage. Difficulty levels are not a refinement of the intelligence in the ai, but making the game easier for the ai and harder for the player by granting bonuses/maluses.

[GodSpawn]

Yes, that particular difficulty tuning method isn't any more cheating than using a handicap in Golf, or in Go, or even Magic the Gathering!

[Handel]

Actually even on prince level the AI already gets huge bonuses. At my last game on prince the persian started north of me and at least 60% from their teritory was tundra/snow. And guess what - they developed the same size cities as me. Meanwhile the chines were at west with at least 30% desert. And they were slightly ahead of me on techs and ahead of wonders because their industrial leader. And they had at least 25 units in every city. Only the nearest to me chinese navy consisted from at least 15 ships which non-stop moved senselessly, making the waiting a pain in the ass. So I will evaluate they supported at least 300 units.

[MarkG]

that's not a cheat, that's just an initial handicap for the human player in order to make the first few turns harder in case the ai is close to a human

[soulfire777]

Correct me if I am wrong, but "handicapping" a player without TELLING them they are facing that particular handicap is...CHEATING. If a human player did that to you, most people would definately call them a cheater without even thinking twice.

I guess all I am saying is that enough information should be given to allow players to make intelligent and informed decisions. I read the entire manual, including the section on how the difficulty levels affect the game, and no information was given to inform me that I had ZERO chance to succeed against the AI with the same exact strategy that would have had a 50% chance of success against any human player.

A "handicap" should give a weaker player a fair chance against a sronger player, but both players should be fully aware what handicaps are in place.

[Fried-Psitalon]

Okay, now you're aware. I guess that makes it not cheating anymore.

Case closed!

[Bill3000]

Originally posted by Fried-Psitalon
Okay, now you're aware. I guess that makes it not cheating anymore.

Case closed!

Since when is Fried Ming?

[sectionb]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the manual clearly state that his happens on the higher difficulty level?

[GodSpawn]

On page 152 of the manual, there is a section that is clearly titled AI Freebies. It says:

On the higher difficulty levels, the AI begins receiving extra units to start the game.

So:

Correct me if I am wrong, but "handicapping" a player without TELLING them they are facing that particular handicap is...CHEATING. If a human player did that to you, most people would definately call them a cheater without even thinking twice.

Indeed - but see above.

[rockhopper]

Originally posted by soulfire777
Correct me if I am wrong, but "handicapping" a player without TELLING them they are facing that particular handicap is...CHEATING.

I think its wrong that the computer has the ability to do thousands, if not MILLIONS of mathematical calculations per second.

That is CLEARLY an enormous advantage for the PC!

I DEMAND that Firaxis give me the same capability! There is NOTHING in the manual that in any way informs me of my Athlon64 +3500's ability to add this well!

Cheaters!

Refund! Who is with me?

If I don't begin adding with the same aplomb by the time the patch comes out, I will throw my Civ4 disk into the microwave, set it on HIGH for 13 minutes 17 seconds, pitch the smoking oven into a vat of acid, boil the acid down into a gooey paste, smear the gooey paste all over my road, jump in my car, burn doughnuts on the goo-ified pavement, scrape the dried goo-crust off my tires, pound it into a fine dust, dissolve the dust into a cup of green tea, and quietly sip the tea by the fire as I play something with real AI, like MoO3.

[-Ab-]

dont microwave it
ill take it off your hands and at no charge

i suspect teh AI gets archers instead of warriors on monarch
however i got no proof of that