Civ4 = Flash Civ

[Werdna]

Originally posted by LzPrst
So it actually is clear. Firaxis has sold us out. I dont know how many civ'ers there are out there, but shouldnt we have been allowed to keep the very bastion of turnbased games turnbased? Civ will never appeal to the clickfest lovers of RTS games, its not what its about. A civ game should be something you should be able to enjoy, spending time with it. not something you finish in a few hours for the biggest possible adrenaline rush.

this also might shed light on some other issues. the fact that the game flies by quicker and is more appealing to RTS'ers is also a way of making it more MP friendly (for people without organizational skills or patience) which might explain why the AI is a little daft...

What I loved about civilization was the possibility to build actual civilizations, not just grow-build-spacerace. dearmads mod is a step in the right direction, but I feel something is wrong when dearmad has to step in and fix the game for us...

Should we bomb firaxis with mails telling them that we want our TBS game back and corporate greed be damned?

exactly. I feel the same.
I would love to play the game over several days.
Maybe they should add super-epic mode.
Unit production should be faster, but research at least 3 times longer. That way you get to enjoy each epoch longer.
Also, I wish there was a way to specify ending epoch.
I don't like modern warfare, as at that point because of all modern units (especially planes) each turn take way too long.
The game usually ends for me around WW2.

[quinalla]

The tech seems to go a bit too fast at some points on a standard speed game. Like others have said, some units are obsolete before you even get a chance to build one. Otherwise, I like the speed of the game pretty well, much better than civ3 which I never played any large map games on because it just took weeks to play them with all the micro needed.

I need to try epic and see how that goes.

[RGBVideo]

Originally posted by Tiberius

Originally posted by VJ
The problem isn't that the game flies by too fast, it goes about as fast as your normal civI-game

No, it isn't. A normal civ2 or civ3 game was taking a few days to finish, while now I finish a game in a few hours.

...huh?

Well anyway, as for the "problem isn't x it's y" in my post, the standard "that's just MY opinion"-disclaimer applies.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Werdna


exactly. I feel the same.
I would love to play the game over several days.
Maybe they should add super-epic mode.
Unit production should be faster, but research at least 3 times longer. That way you get to enjoy each epoch longer.
Also, I wish there was a way to specify ending epoch.
I don't like modern warfare, as at that point because of all modern units (especially planes) each turn take way too long.
The game usually ends for me around WW2.

exactly. I feel the same.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by LzPrst
What I loved about civilization was the possibility to build actual civilizations, not just grow-build-spacerace.

EXACTLY what Civ4 is missing.

I'm a big RTS fan, but when I want to play an RTS-style game, I go play an RTS game. When I want TBS, I play Civ. That's how it should be.

[Godzilla]

Have only played through the Tutorial until they turn ya loose, then 2 games all the way through.

Just as I feel the game starting to come into focus, that little game countdown shows up in the top right hand corner. Haven't tried Epic yet, gonna play the third game through, and see how I feel about that.

I like the new pacing, whereas before, I could be sure to have countless saves to my game to finish it completely over a few days, this one I feel comfortable with taking an evening and finishing a game.

Which leaves me with a satisfied feeling of completion of the game, but also with an empty feeling that the game is now ended...

Which fills me with excitment at the concept of starting a new game...

[Sava]

I am happy with the flow of time in Civ4...

the games I have played ended between 10-13 hours...

this is a perfect amount of time, IMO

Civ3 was absolutely awful

you get past the ancient eras and then it gets bogged down... I never finished ONE GAME of Civ3 because the pace of the game was SO SLOW

Firaxis absolutely got it right with Civ4

I don't understand the results of this poll... what is wrong with you people?

I guess there are morons that will complain about everything though, no matter what.

Civ4 is by far the best Civ game ever.

There are very few, if any, flaws in the gameplay I can detect. And the things I don't like I have changed with my own personal modifications.

Firaxis

whiny losers who complain about everything

[Tiberius]

Originally posted by LordShiva

Originally posted by LzPrst
What I loved about civilization was the possibility to build actual civilizations, not just grow-build-spacerace.

EXACTLY what Civ4 is missing.

I'm a big RTS fan, but when I want to play an RTS-style game, I go play an RTS game. When I want TBS, I play Civ. That's how it should be.

I love Civ4, and I believe the potential to be the best civ game ever is there. Too bad they made it with RTS fans in mind, making it less attractive to hardcore civ players.

One other thing they did is to streamlime the game for multiplayer. While I understand the effort and certainly lots of people are happy with it, it takes away from the single player experience, which takes up 99% of my civing time. Take the great wonders for example: none of them feel GREAT anymore. Sure, they are balanced, but where has my satisfaction gone for building the Great Library or the Colossus? It's gone.

[Tiberius]

Originally posted by Sava
I guess there are morons that will complain about everything though, no matter what.

whiny losers who complain about everything

Let me remind you that when civ3 came out you were "a whiny loser moron who complain about everything", to use your own words.

Let's not go into details who's what, only because they have a different opinion on the game.

I think the game is awesome, and exactly this makes me sad that it doesn't last longer.

Also if I think that it's awesome, it doesn't automatically mean that it's perfect or that I like everything about it.
I don't like posts like "this game sucks" any more than you do, but I will keep posting about ideas that in my opinion could make it more enjoyable. If no one else rallies to my opinion, than I will just modd it to my liking, but until then I will keep posting (hopefully) positive critiscism, and I surely hope that others will do that too.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Sava
whiny losers who complain about everything

I remember a certain post of yours with the 14 s

You certainly sounded pretty "whiny" complaining about Knight beats Gunship.

[Shaka II]

Originally posted by Werdna
exactly. I feel the same.
I would love to play the game over several days.
Maybe they should add super-epic mode.
Unit production should be faster, but research at least 3 times longer. That way you get to enjoy each epoch longer.
Also, I wish there was a way to specify ending epoch.
I don't like modern warfare, as at that point because of all modern units (especially planes) each turn take way too long.
The game usually ends for me around WW2.

I agree. As to how to make this occur, it is less clear, but slowing the tech race down is key.

Decreasing the settler build time is less obvious, as it also means that the AI gets to build more units as well. I think what is needed is more turns to use the units, which I believe is what epic does. Epic also slows down the tech race, but not enough. More turns would slow it down more.

If we were to keep the same number of turns as epic, than I would say that tech has to be slowed down, unit development sped up. Can't really do unit movement increase in my opinion, so either allowing faster build times or more turns would have to be used.

Or it could be done just through a turns increase, such as an epic epic with about 25% more turns, possibly even map dependent. For example, is domination possible on a huge map with the current normal or epic settings and the harder levels?

What I enjoy most are the ancient and medieval battles. The modern day slug fests with tanks and modern armor are a bit less fun. But the worst is when you build units like musketmen or knights, and never get to use them, because the tech race flies by so fast.

I will look forward to playing Dearmad's mod, once it has been play tested and I'm ready to switch from vanilla Civ4. I would prefer that Firaxis provide an option in a patch, such as epic epic. There are people who actually like long, drawn out battles, where the units don't become obsolete by the time they get to the battle field.

[Krill]

To be fair, I started a game on a large map, on Noble, to tune up my builderish skills.

I only just discovered music after about 10 hours of playing. I have a lot further to go, though I would put that down to the fact that I have not traded for a single tech, as the only AI I know is a weakling, and I just declared war on for a bit more land to use...

...and this is on Quick speed.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Shaka II
There are people who actually like long, drawn out battles, where the units don't become obsolete by the time they get to the battle field.

It's sad that Firaxis left us in the lurch in favour of spaceship builders and UN groupies.

[Krill]

Tibby, better to have balanced wonders that won't break the game than to have overpowered ones.

Remember getting an SGL from discovering the first tech, and then slamming the pyramids out by turn 20? How balanced was that? And how much love did that sort of unbalancing detract from the game?

I'm happy with this game. Sure, there are several things that I wish were different. Combat is not one of them, nor is game speed. I would love to see PBEM up and running right now, running perfectly, smoothly, with no major bugs for example.

[Krill]

Combat is fairly well balanced, IMO. I can, on Prince, run through an AI with an army of axe/sword/spear/archer/cats, then upgrade the core units, the City raider 3 sowrds, the Shock+Combat 2 Axe, and the few spear that have the +25% against horse, about 8 units total, build more cats, then go and run through the neighbouring AI if I think my economy can handle the costs.

I will be honest. I have not tried it on Monarch. Monarch, though, is the first of the "Real" Unfair levels, and I have not had much of a reason moving up while I am still learning the game, and getting to grips with the expansionist phase of the game.