No tech trading broken?

[soulfire777]

Hi,

I have a question on the no tech trading option:

I have not found a way to confirm this yet, but so far it seems very much like only the human players are bound by this restriction when it is enabled, while the AI players still seem able to trade technologies amongst themselves at will.

I base this partly on the observations that even when playing at the "noble" difficulty setting, where the AIs are supposed to have no production or research advantages, the AI civs tend to consistently be several techs ahead of human players in the early stages of the game, even when human player research has been at 90-100% and well managed with lots of tiles that give commerce bonuses, etc. They also seem to have a lot of technology overlap (where most techs any one AI civ has are shared by most of the other AI civs - but not human civs).

Additionally, if you watch the tech trading screen closely, you can see that very soon after one AI civ aquires a given technology, within several turns most of the other AI civs also seem to get it.

While this is fine in a normal game, I do NOT feel the AIs should be able to do this in games where tech trading is forbidden by the ruleset.

[khumak]

I think it's probably more likely that the AI is getting ahead in research due to it's excessive emphasis on cottages. If I put all my workers on auto they cut down every tree in sight and build nothing but cottages and mines.

[SpartanLord]

A qucik and dirty way to test it would be play on a tiny map and to set the tech cost to say 300% with maybe three AI teams that start with different tech. Then monitor the levels. Please note great people give tech and sometimes so do the villages.

[soulfire777]

Originally posted by khumak
I think it's probably more likely that the AI is getting ahead in research due to it's excessive emphasis on cottages. If I put all my workers on auto they cut down every tree in sight and build nothing but cottages and mines.

I go cottage crazy too, and usually play the financial trait and get bonus commerce from any square generating 2 or more commerce from that. And I still can't keep up with the AIs in the early game tech race. I keep up fine with other human players - just not the AIs.

The thing that disturbs me is that I tried the no tech trading option thinking it should make the game easier for the human players (because I usually don't like to give my techs away unless I can give them to several different people thereby gaining several different techs in return for my single one). But instead of getting EASIER it actually seems to get HARDER for human players to keep up with AIs when you select no tech trading.

I guess the only way I will know for sure is to see how things develop in the late game. If the AI civs that are doing really poorly and have no legitimate way to develop lots of modern tech still seem to acquire it anyway somehow, then we will KNOW. LOL

[Adagio]

I believe the AI does not trade techs either
I'm playing a game with no-tech-trading (on noble) with 18 Civs, but all the AI's are way behind in the tech race (I've got tanks... modern tanks... while their best units are the first gunpowder units in the game)... most of my game I've been at 60-80%

Seems like no-tech-trading is too easy

[Adagio]

On a side-note, I did skip a lot of techs, I haven't even invented the alphabet yet, nor meditation or horse riding, just to mention I few

[Rommel2D]

I've been wondering about AI tech trading also. In my current game (on Monarch), I've bee-lined alphabet and used it to quickly catch up to the other 5 civs spread out around me. I've been checking every turn to to see who has what available. Every few turns a new tech is discovered and a bunch of AIs get it at the same time. They seem to be divided into a pair and a trio of civs that get the same ones among them.

I should say there are two civs I haven't met, so they could be silent partners with Alphabet, trading to the respective blocs, but I've explored our entire continent and posess a strech of shoreline so this seems unlikely.

Also, the AIs I'm in contact with seem to be placing too little emphasis on the Alpha tech. Even if there are foreign powers trading to them, any of them would have gone past me easily if they'd researched alpha back when they first had the pre-reqs and would have been trading directly within the blocs.

I haven't quantified the tech aquisition rate, but it sure looks suspicious through casual observation. Has anyone else seen a hint of this?

[Rommel2D]

Wait, this is an 'option'? Is it on by default?

(sorry, but I'm away from my PC for the next couple days...)

[Xerxes712]

Check your "true" Research points on Noble. it is not EVEN with the AI!

The game data says you are supposd to be 100% at Noble. In truth your tech cost is exactly 30% higher than what the poster says, using a Standard map size.

Only on Cheiftain does tech come close to even with AI.

Your tech cost is determined by difficulty level AND map size. Using the poster tech cost as the base.

The AI on Noble still uses the base at 100%, so it has a research advantage against you. A Standard map size has an inherent 30% research penalty added to YOU.

A Duel is 100% even though.

You would need to modify the setting in the XML so it is truely 'one on one'.

[Boris Godunov]

Re: No tech trading broken?

Originally posted by soulfire777
Additionally, if you watch the tech trading screen closely, you can see that very soon after one AI civ aquires a given technology, within several turns most of the other AI civs also seem to get it.

Hmm, I've noticed the opposite. In my games, a few AI civs will be ahead of the curve technologically and will sit on advanced techs while the other AI civs languish behind.

[Grumbold]

In the REX phase of the early game some basic techs become very cheap very quickly, so its not surprising that with their tech bonus most Civs will grab them all within turns of each other. Its pretty clear that Civs do research very different priorities from that point onward, but some are bound to match priorities and research the same things. The more that do that, the better off you are because they have less to swap among themselves

[Swissy]

The game rule options only apply to human players, at least that is what I have seen in MP games. We play many games set at always war, and if a couple players skips out, you'll find the AIs that take over will make peace in a few turns. Also, if the One City Challenge option is on, an AI civ will build multiple cities.

[PJL]

Originally posted by Swissy
The game rule options only apply to human players, at least that is what I have seen in MP games. We play many games set at always war, and if a couple players skips out, you'll find the AIs that take over will make peace in a few turns. Also, if the One City Challenge option is on, an AI civ will build multiple cities.

So are you saying that no tech trading only applies to the player and not to the AI civs at all (they can freely trade techs regardless?).

[Adagio]

Originally posted by PJL
So are you saying that no tech trading only applies to the player and not to the AI civs at all (they can freely trade techs regardless?).

Not from my experience... usually the AI's are a few techs ahead of me, but in the game without tech-trading I was (as mentioned) very advanced compared to them...

[Dis]

hmm, this definately needs more testing. My next game I will definately try no tech trading.