Your preferred civics choices

[Unimatrix11]

Originally posted by Blaupanzer
[...] free trade has its uses pre-Communism [...]

I wish more people knew that...

[Hauptman]

Mid game...
Republic (when available), Buerocracy, Caste system, free trade (asap), Organized religion.


Near late game...

Republic, Free speech, caste system, free trade, organized religion.

End game...

Republic, free speech, universal sufferage, environmentalism, organized religion (switched to theocracy for wars).

[couerdelion]

Earlier game civics like Org Rel, Pacifism and Slavery can be very effective in certain situations

Late game, I'd go for State Property

[Blaupanzer]

couerdelion, how do you effectively keep a sufficient-size army and run Pacifism? I find that civic to be entirely too costly, as military expenses overwhelm me. Alternatively, my army is too small to stave off AI invasions.

[Victor Galis]

I tend to run Hereditary Rule, Bureaucracy, Serfdom, Free Market, Theocracy for most of the game.

Before corporations I would use State Property because I only play on Huge maps.

[wodan11]

Originally posted by Victor Galis
...for most of the game....

What does that mean?

[Theben]

Originally posted by Blaupanzer
couerdelion, how do you effectively keep a sufficient-size army and run Pacifism? I find that civic to be entirely too costly, as military expenses overwhelm me. Alternatively, my army is too small to stave off AI invasions.

Pacifism with Vassalage works well b/c/ of the free army support from Vassalage counters most problems with paying per unit. In addition Pacifism has NO support cost, and when dropping from Org Rel (high support) you can save a lot. Often I'll save a little bit more by doing so... only if you have a HUGE army should this be an issue. This is at Monarch level.

[uffe]

Originally posted by Theben


Pacifism with Vassalage works well b/c/ of the free army support from Vassalage counters most problems with paying per unit. In addition Pacifism has NO support cost, and when dropping from Org Rel (high support) you can save a lot. Often I'll save a little bit more by doing so... only if you have a HUGE army should this be an issue. This is at Monarch level.

I use Pacifism quite often before going to the world domination tour. I.e., I switch to it at some point, normally during a Golden Age, when I don't yet have a massive army, but just enough for defense and relatively small conquering purposes. I will then switch back to Org Rel or Theogracy at the end of some Golden Age, when I'm getting ready for the final war...usually when I'm about to get tanks.

[couerdelion]

Generally, it is for a mid game burst of GP production. If you can get a few cities turning between 9-15 GPP and one of these has the National Epic, then this gives you a 45 GPP/turn city generating a 4rd GP in 9 turns and your 10th GP in 23 turns.

Running pacifism for the GPP will probably be worth around 25 GPP/turn. When GP costs 300-500 each (and IMHO are worth something in the region of 2000 gold) then each GPP is worth around 5-8g.

ie Pacifism generates 125-200gpt in this situation at a relatively low cost.

Note that this is situational so I won’t run it unless I get the option early – probably while grabbing Taoism from a GS lightbulb of Philosophy. If I’ve got limited expansion plans – few resources or well defended neighbours – then a short GP spam can hurry me through the tech tree to change the odds more in my favour.

And obviously it works well with Pyramids and Representation too.

[Arrian]

I tend to go through the following phases:

Hed Rule-Bureacracy-Slavery-Decentralization-Org.Rel
Rep-Bureacracy-Serfdom-Mercantilism-Pacifism
Rep-Bur-Emanc-State Property-Free Religion

And sometimes at the end I'll go

Univ Suff-Free Speech-Emanc-State Prop-Free Rel. But often stick stubbornly to Rep/Bur.

-Arrian

[Hauptman]

Originally posted by Blaupanzer
couerdelion, how do you effectively keep a sufficient-size army and run Pacifism? I find that civic to be entirely too costly, as military expenses overwhelm me. Alternatively, my army is too small to stave off AI invasions.

As a player who often uses pacifism in philo games, i have found the cost of army maintenance to NEVER be an issue. The offset of civic cost helps, but mainly the payoff is from the extra great people giving both cash income and more beakers, wich alow an adjustment of the sliders to offset any cash isues and still remain ahead.

2 funny things about my playstyle.

I never try to match the AI in unit numbers. I have enough units to maintain control of one area of my empire, generally the most likely direction of attack. This means, I may have to fight a defensive withdrawl as i reposition units should i misjudge the next direction of attack. The loss of a city will matter little if it was not a well defended area to begin with.

I go on the offense to gain defensible possitions, even if it means over extending my economy for a time. However the prefered defensive position, is somone else's land. Namely my vassels. So barring a special tectonic designed defensive positions, i surround my exposed flanks with vassels.

By the time my military is THE world power in the late game, philo + pacifism has made my economy so powerful, costs mean nothing. With a well played SE, 100% tax can still out tech the ai's, or at least keep even with my main rivals.

[Theben]

If you're just running 1 or 2 high GPP cities pacifism may not be worthwhile, but if you have several good sites for extra production, and can afford 3-4+ specialists per city, pacifism looks a lot better.

[Unimatrix11]

Originally posted by Hauptman


[...] i surround my exposed flanks with vassels[...]

You might enjoy reading ´Lost victories´(´Verlorene Siege´) by v. Manstein.

[Blaupanzer]

Originally posted by Unimatrix11
You might enjoy reading ´Lost victories´(´Verlorene Siege´) by v. Manstein.

Would this be real life leaking into the civ world? One negative example does not obviate an eternal verity. Better that the enemy fight and die in some other territory than yours. Keeps things orderly at home.