how to make other civs convert or adopt?

[Martinus]

Originally posted by Kekkonen


You can do it, but I'd suggest a modified techinque: spread your religion to his cities, take the Buddhist holy city, then kick Napster's door in and inform him that his options are Hindu France or no France.

Well, that technique works every time.

And I suppose it is realistic that empires do not just change their religion because they like you - they need some "harder arguments" to be convinced.

[Lucilla]

Hmm, that makes sense, somehow. Yes, Nap founded Buddhism. So I need to spread Hinduism first.
I just confirmed in my religous advisor screen, that I can convert to Judaism but not to Buddhism - the reason will be that none of my cities has Buddhism.
Finally I understand the "convert" concept. Thanks for all your help!

[Kekkonen]

I've found that if a nation owns the holy city of a religion it's very hard to keep it away from that religion in the long run.

[Bhruic]

The thing to keep in mind, I believe, is that everything that's listed as options are things the AI is willing to do. For example, in your screenshot, adopt Tribalism is there, in red. If you mouseover it, it'll probably say something like "We don't like you enough". However, the point to emphasis is that Napolean would do it, if he liked you more.

Now let's say that Napolean had the ability to switch to Organized Religion. If it's not in the list at all, that means that Napolean will not do it at all.

So basically, there are three categories:
Not in list: I won't do it
Red: I would do it, but some factor is preventing me
White: I will do it, if you make the right offer

Bh

[Lucilla]

Originally posted by Bhruic

So basically, there are three categories:
Not in list: I won't do it
Red: I would do it, but some factor is preventing me
White: I will do it, if you make the right offer

Bh

Hmm, I would rather think:
Not in list: I can't do it (missing tech or other requirement)
Red: I would do it, but some factor is preventing me - meaning you don't have enough to offer to make it a deal
White: I will do it, if you make the right offer

[Martinus]

I would characterise Red and White differently, myself.

Red: I won't do it, no matter what.
White: I may do it if the offer is right... but you may have nothing to offer me.

I am saying that, since even when their option is White, they will sometimes not agree to anything, simply because you have nothing to give them back (e.g. trading a tech in exchange for gold only - they rarely if ever will do it, even if you give them all your gold).

[Bhruic]

Ok:
Not in List: I either can't or won't do it.

But in general, there are often times where the AI could do something, if it wanted to, but it won't give you the option to ask for it (even in red). For instance, the AI often has a lot more gold than it will list for trade. That's because it refuses to trade away all of its gold.

Bh

[Martinus]

Originally posted by Bhruic
The thing to keep in mind, I believe, is that everything that's listed as options are things the AI is willing to do. For example, in your screenshot, adopt Tribalism is there, in red. If you mouseover it, it'll probably say something like "We don't like you enough". However, the point to emphasis is that Napolean would do it, if he liked you more.

Now let's say that Napolean had the ability to switch to Organized Religion. If it's not in the list at all, that means that Napolean will not do it at all.

So basically, there are three categories:
Not in list: I won't do it
Red: I would do it, but some factor is preventing me
White: I will do it, if you make the right offer

Bh

Actually for Tribalism, I believe the mouse-over would be something along the line of not wanting to revert to a primitive civic - since Tribalism gives no advantage whatsoever.

[Bhruic]

Originally posted by Martinus
Red: I won't do it, no matter what.
White: I may do it if the offer is right... but you may have nothing to offer me.

I am saying that, since even when their option is White, they will sometimes not agree to anything, simply because you have nothing to give them back (e.g. trading a tech in exchange for gold only - they rarely if ever will do it, even if you give them all your gold).

Seems a bit nitpicky to me. Red basically means that some factor of your relationship is stopping them from doing it. It doesn't mean they won't, in general, just that they won't right now.

White, on the other hand, means that there is nothing preventing them from trading it. They'd be happy to do so. But, obviously, they want something in return (unless they really like you, or are really scared of you ).

Bh

[eljeffe]

I notice in that screenshot that you don't have an open boarders agreement. Give that a try.

Also to even get the option to convert to x religion, at least one of the ai's cities must have x religion. Even then, the option will probably be in red and you'll get some message to the effect, "Not enough of my people are of this religion."

[Datajack Franit]

very useful thread-thx

[gakkun]

Originally posted by Bhruic
Ok:
Not in List: I either can't or won't do it.

no it just means they CAN'T do it, not won't.

Red: they definitely won't do it no matter what you have. You can see the reason why they won't when you float your cursor on it.

White: they MIGHT do it IF you have what they want.

[TheHateMale]

Slightly off the topic, but what does the 'I have my reasons' excuse mean? I saw it crop up with a tech before, the only reason I can think of is he was gearing up to declare war.

The other excuse I've seen is 'I want to WIN this game'. Slightly out-of-character, but funny nonetheless.

[Solver]

Not on list: they can't do it. For conversions, there are two possible reasons.

1) Recent revolution and can't convert now.
2) Don't have your religion in any of their cities. At least one city must have religion X to enable converting to X.

To reasonably get them to convert religions, you need to spread your religion to about two thirds of their cities, and then they'll usually convert for some money or techs.

[Lucilla]

In my last game I had the conversion option and some adopt options available and I convinced the other civ to adopt my civics. Next round the convert option was no longer available. This confirms Solver's view that an ongoing revolution makes it unable to convert them.

And yes, in another game I could not spread my religion, because they have the necessary tech, but none of their cities had my religion.

Another reason of course could be, that they follow the "free religion" civic, so they can't have a state religion.