Forests: Should you really keep them?

[Dis]

I kept forests my last game and seemed to have terrible production (though I had a lot of water tiles). This game I put workshops in everywhere. My production is sky high. Just the way I like it. I want to keep forests in, but they don't seem to help me much. Maybe I'm missing something.

[Arrian]

Err... until at least the mid-game, forest and workshop should have the same production, with less food for the workshop, shouldn't they?

Workshop base result = -1 food, +1 hammer. If you build this on a forest tile, you gain shields from the chop, lose a food and the production remains the same (forest is +1 hammer, so it balances. You lose the forest to the chop, but gain the hammer from the shop).

Later you can get bonii for the workshop so it gets a bit better, but I don't see how you're getting more production out of them (since later in the game you also get lumbermills) besides the bonus for the initial forest chop.

-Arrian

[Dis]

actually most of the workshops I was building on tiles I couldn't farm (no fresh water). My previous game I built cottages, but I seemed to really lag in production, and had a hard time building the spaceship parts.

But the point is my last game I kept the forests, and it still didn't help my production much. But yeah I do believe they yield the same as a workshop. I'm still undecided on forests I guess. My post was more an argument of workshops vs. cottages which should be in it's own thread.

[Krill]

Both have their place. Just not in the same city.

[rthanu]

It really depends. By the time you get your first worker out you should have a good idea on the following info: How many different types of food resources you expect to claim, and how many other civs there are that will potentially trade food resources with you. Also take into consideration being expansive, fresh water, and floodplains(not so much jungles since they can and obviously should be cleared as soon as reasonable).

[sophist]

Originally posted by Arrian
You lose the forest to the chop, but gain the hammer from the shop

MC Arrian in da hizzy.

[khumak]

There's no reason you can't have your cake and eat it too with regard to forests. Chop some of them down but leave some in place as well. Also only build improvements on tiles you actually plan to use right away and leave the others cleared for forests to expand into. In most of my games I clear about half of my forests and by the middle of the game most of them have all grown back.

Generally I'm not using more than about half of my tiles anyway until WAY late in the game so might as well have some forests on them. Plus even if you don't plan on doing lumbermills later you can just chop them again once they grow back for double the production bonus.

I usually chop most or all of the grassland and hills forests so I can build cottages and mines and leave some plains forests.

[Peets]

I mostly leave them. Here and there I chop one. They are good when you need some production. (example: for a wonder)
Also lumbermills are good!
But when I need food, I will chop them down. Mostly that's late in the game. The production it gives is good for early in the game.

[Tennyson]

I should mention that I ruthlessly chop anything that's outside the directly usable area of my cities. That way I get rushed production plus lumbermills for later, unless I've converted the square to farming/cottages by then.

[ChaotikVisions]

In my games I chop forests down when they're on plains so I can irrigate, and lumbermill/railroad when they're on grasslands. There might be some occasions when I chop them down(to link irrigation or in dire need of cash) on grasslands. I like to balance growth with production and so far in my games its worked out well.

[Dis]

my last game I kept alot of forests. It didn't have any noticible effect on my game that I could tell. I did chop some down, for aesthetic reasons. Because I like my map to look a certain way .

[khumak]

I'm confused about the potential yield from forests. For plains it starts at 1F/2S and for Grassland it's 2F/1S. With a lumbermill that adds 1S and if it's near a river/lake it also adds 1C. So that's 1F/3S/1C max for plains or 2F/2S/1C for grassland right? I've seen a couple of posts with people claiming more but I'm not seeing where they get those numbers.

[Sarxis]

I think the larger numbers come from some of the later techs. But I found out in my last game that railroads will add one hammer to both mines AND lumbermills.

[Hamdinger]

Will forests spread to tiles that have roads only? Or will they only spread to completely unimproved tiles?

[TomVeil]

Originally posted by Ansaga
Firaxis stated that forgetting the options to leave trees alone is a oversight and it should be in the next patch.

In my opinion trees are great. Everyone remembers the short term OMG 30 shield! whoope... No one ever thinks of the long term. The health bonus, happiness bonus, and the fact that trees give hammer! You get more hammer long term just keeping the forest then chopping it down.

Absolutely right. The trees give you one hammer/turn if you leave them standing, so over the long term you get more hammers if you leave them alone.
How to balance that with the benefits of cleared land, like cottages?
Selective, controlled deforestation! Some players may not have noticed, but large forests grow as the game goes on. So if you just nip and trim a bit, but don't kill the whole thing, it will grow back and you can get 30 shields here and there, while keeping your resource sustainable.