Looking God(s) in the Eye: A Discussion of CIV Religion

[Theseus]

A couple of things:

1) Clarification, although it's already noted separately:

Under spreading religion, the first option should read:

"Missionaries – built by a town with an appropriate monastery (as well as the free missionaries afforded by being the first to research Confucianism, Taoism, Christianity, and Islam)."

2) Given that Meditation and Polytheism are both so easily and equally accessible, does there seem to be any difference in going for one or the other? Do AI civs prefer either? Does it matter what traits the AI civs have? How easy is it to get both? Polytheism would seem to be preferable if following a REL strategy, given the direct access to Monotheism (followed by...)

3) It seems to me that a *balanced* REL strategy should focus on just the three early religions, perhaps followed by Theology (given the direct access from Monotheism, and which, with the free missionary, seems like quite an easily grabbed plum). The opportunity costs of pursuing the other four or three religions seem high. Any thoughts on this?

4) In terms of spreading religion, can somebody comment a bit about the most effective ways to do so *within* one's own empire? What are the priorities of doing so versus planting a preferred religion in other civs' cities?

5) What goes into picking a state religion given multiple options? Timing? (e.g., the earliest religions should naturally spread the most, n'est-ce pas?) Studying the percentage of religion in visible cities?

6) Lastly, and this is a bit broad, but what are the factors which would indicate a focus on a REL strat? Civ traits? Terrain? Neighbor proximity, number, traits, etc.?

Excellent post, FP.

[duodecimal]

To spread a religion internally without missionaries, you must get transportation networks set up as soon as possible, and getting the shrine built helps as well.

Neither Buddhism nor Hinduism spread from my capital to the 2nd city, but it appeared almost immediately in Orleans, a foreign city downriver of my capital.

Thanks to a road network set up by Louis in that city I captured from him, and a favorable alignment of rivers and coastlines, Buddhism spread rapidly throughout the continent: it was the only religion with a shrine, and I owned the other two early religions as well. I built only one missionary, to get my second city a 25% speed advantage for building up my military (it had barracks). Buddhism failed to spread to that city in part, I believe, to it having Judaism already (as the Holy City).

However, this didn't stop Hinduism and Judaism taking hold in two other civs in my case.

[Fried-Psitalon]

Originally posted by duodecimal
To spread a religion internally without missionaries, you must get transportation networks set up as soon as possible, and getting the shrine built helps as well.

Neither Buddhism nor Hinduism spread from my capital to the 2nd city, but it appeared almost immediately in Orleans, a foreign city downriver of my capital.

Thanks to a road network set up by Louis in that city I captured from him, and a favorable alignment of rivers and coastlines, Buddhism spread rapidly throughout the continent: it was the only religion with a shrine, and I owned the other two early religions as well. I built only one missionary, to get my second city a 25% speed advantage for building up my military (it had barracks). Buddhism failed to spread to that city in part, I believe, to it having Judaism already (as the Holy City).

However, this didn't stop Hinduism and Judaism taking hold in two other civs in my case.

Duo - the production bonus from Organized Religion applies to structures only; it doesn't help in the construction of troops.

Theseus- will answer your questions shortly(ish) relatively speaking.

Will also be correcting the errors in my original post. Heck, I may just add Theseus's answers there, too, and make it a "master post." Would that be better than adding more down here?

[Theseus]

Originally posted by Fried-Psitalon
Will also be correcting the errors in my original post. Heck, I may just add Theseus's answers there, too, and make it a "master post." Would that be better than adding more down here?

Yesyesyes.

[Solver]

Fried, you forgot about the Cathedral culture bonuses. For high culture cities, having two or three religions just for the Cathedrals is a valuable asset.

Great post, though .

[padillah]

Originally posted by Theseus
A couple of things:
... snip ...

2) Given that Meditation and Polytheism are both so easily and equally accessible, does there seem to be any difference in going for one or the other? Do AI civs prefer either? Does it matter what traits the AI civs have? How easy is it to get both? Polytheism would seem to be preferable if following a REL strategy, given the direct access to Monotheism (followed by...)

The only difference I can see is Meditation only costs 70(?) research while Polytheism is 110(?).

So the cost make one a "quicker" discovery, if not necessarily a better one. As you noted the route to Monotheism and beyond may be too much for the AI to pass up and you may find yourself with Hinduism and Buddism competing for place.

Tom P.

[Symbiance]

Originally posted by Symbiance
Are there any effects if you raze a holy city? Any hits on happiness, or the abillity to spread that religion or anything?

Does anyone have an answer for this one? I'm basically just wondering if there are any ways to combat other religions--like, "holy wars" or something--other than sending out a bunch of missionaries to try and convert cities.
It seems to make sense that there'd be some sort of huge effect for wiping out a holy city, but I haven't found anything in the manual that mentions it.

[khumak]

Re: Looking God(s) in the Eye: A Discussion of CIV Religion

So is there any catch to this religion thing at all? Why shouldn�t I beeline straight for the religious technologies every game?

Like anything else in CIV, there are opportunity costs for anything. Players who are researching Meditation and Polytheism aren�t researching Archery, Pottery, or Sailing � and so may have lower growth, commerce, or exploration. Players not researching Monotheism can be researching bronze working or writing. Beelining for Code of Laws means giving up things like Monarchy, Metal Casting, and Mathematics. Straight to Philosophy? You risk facing knights! Similarly, an early rush for Theology may leave you so far back in development and defense as to put you in desperate straits. As for rushing Divine Right�.don�t. Just don�t.

Actually as strange as it might seem focusing on religion can actually increase the pace of your tech progress. The more religions you have access to, the more monastaries you can build. The more monastaries you build the faster your research goes. Also if you wind up founding ALL of the religions then there's going to be a lot of AI cities without any religion for quite awhile. This restricts their ability to both grow due to happiness concerns and also to research due to having no monastaries.

The key to a successful focus on religion is to do it in stages. Start by picking a civ with Mysticism. That's a no brainer. Beeline for Buddhism first and then Hinduism because the AI follows that same order so if you beat it to Buddhism you'll also beat it to Hinduism.

If you beat the AI to those 2 then you have time to research a couple of the cheap food making techs like fishing or farming because the AI is going to do the same thing rather than try and push straight for Monotheism.

Once you've gotten a couple of techs so your workers have something to do, beeline for Monotheism. When you have that then you don't need to worry about researching any more religious techs for a LONG time. There are 2 requirements for this to be true though. You absolutely MUST be build the Oracle and you absolutely MUST be the first to get a GP. If the AI beats you to 1 of those then they will snag Theology from you. So build the Oracle and use it to get Theology. Use your first GP to get the next religion and build a shrine with the next one if you want.

Nobody's getting Divine Right for a LONG time so don't worry about it. You'll have plenty of time to beat the AI to it later without crippling yourself by going straight for it.

[Theseus]

Re: Re: Looking God(s) in the Eye: A Discussion of CIV Religion

Originally posted by khumak
Also if you wind up founding ALL of the religions then there's going to be a lot of AI cities without any religion for quite awhile. This restricts their ability to both grow due to happiness concerns and also to research due to having no monastaries.

Hmmm... it just occurred to me that this is not an all-or-nothing proposition; i.e., it's more like musical chairs, in that decreasing the number of *available* religions for all other civs is the trick. Cool.

Beeline for Buddhism first and then Hinduism because the AI follows that same order so if you beat it to Buddhism you'll also beat it to Hinduism.

Is this the case? Makes the beeline sort of a no-brainer then, huh?

If you beat the AI to those 2 then you have time to research a couple of the cheap food making techs like fishing or farming because the AI is going to do the same thing rather than try and push straight for Monotheism.

Once you've gotten a couple of techs so your workers have something to do, beeline for Monotheism.

Ditto... no-brainer.

When you have that then you don't need to worry about researching any more religious techs for a LONG time. There are 2 requirements for this to be true though. You absolutely MUST be build the Oracle and you absolutely MUST be the first to get a GP. If the AI beats you to 1 of those then they will snag Theology from you.

Explain, please.

So build the Oracle and use it to get Theology. Use your first GP to get the next religion and build a shrine with the next one if you want.

Any special ideas for the Theology missionary?
________________________

Thanks... this is the sort of detailed approach newer players need for a given strat.

I'm wary though... are the AI civs that predictable?

[Quillan]

It's not 100% true that the AI goes after Buddhism first. Normally yes, that is the case. As a result, I've usually taken to beelining for Hinduism, but I got beat there once last night.

[khumak]

Originally posted by Quillan
It's not 100% true that the AI goes after Buddhism first. Normally yes, that is the case. As a result, I've usually taken to beelining for Hinduism, but I got beat there once last night.

I don't think founding all religions is possible on the hardest levels because the AI has a research advantage and generally you're up against at least 1 AI civ that starts with Mysticism and goes straight for Buddhism. Not possible to beat them to it.

To answer Theseus about my requirement for the Oracle and getting the first GP, you can use a GP to discover a free religious tech so if you allow the AI to get the first one they'll use it to beat you to Theology because by that time they will have researched up to Monotheism and Theology is next. Oracle also gives a free tech so if you allow the AI to build that first then they'll use that to get Theology.

[Krill]

Beeline for Buddhism first and then Hinduism because the AI follows that same order so if you beat it to Buddhism you'll also beat it to Hinduism.

Nope, the Ai does not always go for Meditation instead of Polytheism. I have played plenty of games where Hinduism was founded before Buddhism (including a v1.00 game just now).

[LzPrst]

theres another downside about spreading religion to all your neighbouring civs. if you declare war on them your people will be unhappy cause youre fighting their brothers in faith...

[khumak]

Originally posted by LzPrst
theres another downside about spreading religion to all your neighbouring civs. if you declare war on them your people will be unhappy cause youre fighting their brothers in faith...

So switch to one of the many other religions you founded...

[Fried-Psitalon]

I've updated this to remove some errors and incorrect statements I made in the first version.