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Looking God(s) in the Eye: A Discussion of CIV Religion

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  • Looking God(s) in the Eye: A Discussion of CIV Religion

    Looking God(s) In The Eye - (Everything You Wanted to Know About Religion in CIV But Were Afraid to Ask)


    In the beginning….

    Religions are founded and created by being the first to research a particular technology. These technologies (and corresponding religions) are:

    Meditation: Buddhism
    Polytheism: Hinduism
    Monotheism: Judaism
    Code of Laws: Confucianism
    Philosophy: Taoism
    Theology: Christianity
    Divine Right: Islam

    Religions will tend (though not always) to be founded in your newest cities. Thus, careful timing of your first settler plant with regards to founding one of the “early” three religions – Buddhism, Hinduism, and Judaism – can ensure your second city will culture-pop quite quickly. The “late” religions – Confucianism, Taoism, Christianity, and Islam – all get a free missionary when founded to help make up for the fact that they start later than the early religions.

    What does this religion do?

    If you have no state religion, religion does nothing (exception: Free Religion civic, see below.) except grant a cultural influence - +1 for the existence of the religion, and +5 for the Holy city. Once you adopt a state religion (which causes 1 turn of anarchy for all civilizations except Spiritual ones) various effects come into play. Any city that has the state-adopted faith gets one happiness and two culture per turn simply from the religion’s presence. Additional faiths that are not the state faith have no effect - LOSING the cultural bonus they had before (again, Free Religion civic being the exception.) The presence of the state religion activates the benefits of whatever your Religious civic is; otherwise, the Religious civic still costs the town money without giving an advantage.

    What can I do with this religion?

    There are three religion-specific buildings that may be constructed:

    Monasteries: Available at Meditation
    Temples: Available at Priesthood
    Cathedral-Type (Level 2 temples): Available at Music

    All three structures have the same benefits, regardless of the religion to which it is attuned. Monasteries grant culture, allow the training of the corresponding missionary, and increase research in the city by 10%. Temples increase the happiness and culture of the town by one, as well as allowing a priest specialist. Level 2 temples (Cathedral-type) grant 2 happiness, but only if the structure matches the state faith. Thus, an Islamic Mosque would not grant 2 happiness to a Hindu state. All Cathedral-type structures also offer an additional 1 happiness if Incense is present in the empire. Finally, Cathedral-type structures allow an additional 2 priest specialists, for a total of 3, and have a very significant cultural impact: +50% culture for that city. (Culturemongers, take note!) A fairly potent building, but quite expensive – almost as much as some of the cheaper wonders. Throw in the requirement of needing 3 temples per Cathedral, and you've got a cultural structure with some serious prep time behind it.

    Wow! How can I spread my religion?

    There are three possible ways to spread a religion:

    Missionaries – built by a town with an appropriate monastery
    Organized Religion civic- any town with the proper faith can build the missionary
    Holy Cities – Holy Shrines spread religions to any town connected by a trade route, over time

    Any town which has a religion present may build a monastery, provided you have the Meditation technology. You can then build missionaries from that monastery, which can travel to another city that does not have the faith and spread it there, consuming the missionary. The chance of the religion spreading is directly proportional to the number of religions already in the city. A city with no religions will always accept a missionary’s teachings. Once a religion already exists, though, there is a chance the city will reject the missionary’s beliefs, and the missionary will have been wasted. A city with six of the seven religions may go through quite a few missionaries before successfully introducing the seventh religion!

    Alternatively, you can build missionaries by using the Organized Religion civic, available at Monotheism. This civic allows a player (at high upkeep) to both produce any structure more rapidly and produce a missionary for any faith that exists in the town – not just the state faith! The downside to this is that the civic is quite costly, and any town without the state religion is still paying the cost of the civic. Most people feel that in the early game, it is worthwhile to use this civic to spread your religion swiftly, as well as take advantage of the bonus to production.

    Lastly, a religion’s Holy City may spread the faith of the religion (quite a low chance) and is much more likely to spread the faith of that religion if a Holy Shrine is present. Holy Shrines are created when the special ability of a Great Prophet is used in the Holy City of that faith (the city that founded the religion.) Although this rate of religious growth is not enough to really spread a religion through an empire on its own, it can help in the process. More interestingly, Holy Shrines may successfully spread faiths to places where missionaries cannot easily reach; foreign nations far away. It should be noted, though, that the Holy Shrine spreading effect only works if a city has NO religions – even one will block this “passive spreading” effect.


    Woo hoo! So I should found and spread as many religions as possible, right?

    Well, there are quite a few benefits to having multiple religions. Although Cathedrals to various faiths don’t work if the Cathedral doesn’t match the state religion, temples DO work – so a Christian temple, a Buddhist temple, and an Islamic temple all in the same town will in fact give you 3 happiness and 3 culture per turn, as well as allowing 3 priest specialists. Holy Shrines also grant +1 gold per turn per city that has the Shrine’s faith, whether the religion is state-supported or not. Thus an empire with four religions, all with Holy Shrines and every city believing in every faith is making four times their number of cities per turn in free gold! Monasteries are similarly cumulative – a town with all seven monasteries built is getting a huge culture and science boost!

    If you’re using the Free Religion civic (available at Liberalism), having multiple religions is also quite useful. For every religion present in a city, Free Religion grants +1 happiness. So an empire that has three religions in a city and three temples is enjoying a total of six happiness, under Free Religion. The downside to Free Religion is that Cathedral-type buildings no longer work, since Free Religion removes any state religion you may have. Some players feel that the nationwide 10% research bonus makes up for this, however.

    Founding multiple religions can also be quite handy for espionage purposes. A player who is following Buddhism as his state faith and holds the Buddhist holy city can actually see every city on the planet which follows the Buddhist faith, regardless of whether or not it is the state religion of that civilization! The ability to see into those cities (as well as one tile around them) has certain obvious benefits, especially if you decide to go on a….Crusade… or two.

    Having control of multiple religions can assist you in influencing which religions spread where – make sure the civilization you want to ally with gets a healthy dose of your state faith, while any opponents you may wish to “set up” to take the fall later on are largely dominated by a faith that you and your allies do not share. True, the “heretic” religion may have spread from the missionaries of your empire, but no one needs to know that but you, devious ruler.

    So is there any catch to this religion thing at all? Why shouldn’t I beeline straight for the religious technologies every game?

    Like anything else in CIV, there are opportunity costs for anything. Players who are researching Meditation and Polytheism aren’t researching Archery, Pottery, or Sailing – and so may have lower growth, commerce, or exploration. Players not researching Monotheism can be researching bronze working or writing. Beelining for Code of Laws means giving up things like Monarchy, Metal Casting, and Mathematics. Straight to Philosophy? You risk facing knights! Similarly, an early rush for Theology may leave you so far back in development and defense as to put you in desperate straits. As for rushing Divine Right….don’t. Just don’t.

    There are other side effects as well; if one of your religions which is not your state-sponsored faith lands in a new city before you are able to spread the state faith there, your missionaries have that much harder of a job to do. Holy Shrines will not be able to help in this instance. Some players also spend so much time merrily spreading religions throughout their empire that they find themselves in dire straits when an enemy who has been building military units comes calling. Like anything else, religion is a strategic choice – delve too heavily into it at the expense of other possibilities, and risk destruction.

    Just how potent is religion in the diplomatic scene?

    If two nations have the same state faith, the number of cities each empire has that are followers of the faith has a direct link to the bonus you get for being "brothers of the faith." Thus, if three empires are all Hindu, they will all like each other more, but the empire that is 100% Hindu will be more popular than the one that is 51% Hindu.

    The opposite is also true - you can earn a lot of enmity from an AI if your faith is different than the state faith of that nation, and their nation is very heavily indoctrinated.

    Faith can make the AI overlook major differences between your nations, or it can (and often is) the starting point on the path to total war.

    Ponder then, good reader, the effects of your faith.... and spread the word accordingly.
    Last edited by Fried-Psitalon; December 15, 2005, 13:31.
    Friedrich Psitalon
    Admin, Civ4Players Ladder
    Consultant, Firaxis Games

  • #2
    That is really helpful! Thanks for posting it.

    Comment


    • #3
      Very nice. One thing I've been wondering about is the following scenario.

      Your next-door neighbor founds Buddhism. What's the downside exactly of just adopting Buddhism yourself, running with it as your state religion, and not worrying all that much about founding another?
      David

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      • #4
        You are putting money in your rivals coffers, and he can see your cities.
        But it's prolly better than being a bunch of no-good atheists.
        John 6:68

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        • #5
          Meh, I would just change to Buddhism and then go and capture the holy city latyer on...and some other cities while you are at it...
          You just wasted six ... no, seven ... seconds of your life reading this sentence.

          Comment


          • #6
            Awesome post! That's been my strategy for a few days: trying to secure most religions. I got 5 out of 7 last night.
            In the early game, it's easy to start off religiously, securing all the religions, building all the necessary buildings, getting every one of my cities as the State religion, choosing the right Civic, etc.
            However, once i get to the point where i should start sending out missionaries to other civs, i poop out. I wonder if i should see it all the way through, and REALLY try and convert other civs? I was trying last night, and it was very difficult, so i gave up.
            I know my cities were getting lots of bonuses from the temples and shrines, but i couldn't figure out if it was worth it financially to start sending missionaries over to other civs... ??

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            • #7
              If you have 5 religions, you build all the religion wonders and I will assume there is 20 cities in your world. If you have every city in the world have all your religions that will be 100 gold per turn. THAT is a lot of money.

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              • #8
                Yes, but what could you have gotten for the cost of and turns spent for over a hundred missionaries instead?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Didymus
                  You are putting money in your rivals coffers, and he can see your cities.
                  But it's prolly better than being a bunch of no-good atheists.
                  Whoa, I think I somehow missed, or misunderstood, the money angle, but it probably explains in retrospect how I was making so much money in my most recent game. I founded both Hinduism and Christianity, both of which had fairly robust expansions....
                  David

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                  • #10
                    Thanks for posting. Incidentally, here is a hint for more enjoyable game for people who prefer smaller maps with fewer civs that Locutus gave me - edit the number of religions down, to say 3 or 4 (since I normally play against European and American powers I cut the religions number to Judaism, Christianity and Islam). The game is much more fun that way, with clear religious blocks forming and not everybody getting their own religion.
                    The problem with leadership is inevitably: Who will play God?
                    - Frank Herbert

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Are there any effects if you raze a holy city? Any hits on happiness, or the abillity to spread that religion or anything?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        If you have no state religion, religion does nothing (exception: Free Religion civic, see below.) to the cities it exists in. Once you adopt a state religion (which causes 1 turn of anarchy for all civilizations except Spiritual ones) various effects come into play. Any city that has the state-adopted faith gets one happiness and two culture per turn simply from the religion’s presence.

                        Unless there's something I'm missing, this isn't true...

                        I didn't need to adopt any state religion to gain either the +5 culture/turn for religion founding cities or get +1 culture/religion/turn in other cities, and those were the primary effects I cared about early game...

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                        • #13
                          How do you edit down the number of religions? I have been playing on the standard map, and find that it is too easy for everyone to have their own religion. How do I edit it down to three or four?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Cathedral-Type (Level 2 temples): Available at Music

                            I believe you are required to have built 3 temples of the correpsonding religion to build a cathedral and I also remember that you get a +50% increase to culture and that is pretty substantial.

                            One part of religion is so important that it should be restated: religion has a huge impact on diplomacy. I've seen +5 relations for similar religion civs and -5 for civs with different religions. This can easily turn an AI from planning to attack you into a friend of the faith. You can convert your state religion to any religion you have in one of your cities as well as convert to having no state religion.

                            Saved me in my last game, I went straight for Hinduism, didn't get it, got Judaism, but by that time most of the world was under Hinduism and I couldn't get my neighbors to switch even after converting most of their cities. It was turning into having a lot of enemies and no friends. Two civs declared war on me, but a quick switch to no-state religion netted me two friends, and the rest of the civs didn't hate me so they wouldn't be swayed by my enemies into fighting me.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Edmund Fogg
                              How do you edit down the number of religions? I have been playing on the standard map, and find that it is too easy for everyone to have their own religion. How do I edit it down to three or four?
                              You should go to a folder called GameInfo (or something similar) in Assets->XML. There is one file that has religion in its title, and lists all religions.

                              Now, while you could remove a religion entirely, this would have a side effect of having to remove all buildings of this religion from all other files, as well as other references, so I would not advise doing that. Instead, for each religion you wish to remove, change the tech it is started by to future tech or something like that (I havent tried leaving the starting tech field open - it could either mean that the religion can never be founded, that it is founded immediately when the game starts or that it will be considered an error by the game - you could try experimenting with this if you have time, as if this removed the religion altogether, it would have been a superior solution to my method ).
                              The problem with leadership is inevitably: Who will play God?
                              - Frank Herbert

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