Simple question about trading resources with other civs

[krytonix]

No, the complaint was that it shows all your resources (1 means 1, not 2) so you can trade away your benefits. I was just trying to say that once when they offered me a trade it showed 1 when i actually had 2. I have no idea why it would happen just this once.... maybe it's only when they approach you to make an offer?

EDIT: for misunderstanding stormwriter's response

[Otrant]

As a reply to why it might say (1) instead of (2) when you have 2 of the resource: it may be because only one is connected in some way (roads/rivers) etc. to the nation that you are negotiating with.

2 gold mines may be within your nations cultural borders, but ithat doesn't mean you can trade them if they aren't connected to the other nation.

[krytonix]

hmm.... interesting. That would make me even less trusting of the diplo screen when it comes to resources. When you negotiate with another civ, are the resources available to trade only the ones connecting through trade routes?

[Common Sensei]

Originally posted by stormwriter
I think the complaint is that it says Gold(1) and we're supposed to know that means we have TWO gold?

In the real world, if i have Kid(1), that means i have ONE kid. Not TWO.

What comes to mind is that maybe they didn't want you to think you were giving them two units of gold, but instead it makes one unsure if you really have more than one.

[DrrD]

Originally posted by Otrant
As a reply to why it might say (1) instead of (2) when you have 2 of the resource: it may be because only one is connected in some way (roads/rivers) etc. to the nation that you are negotiating with.

2 gold mines may be within your nations cultural borders, but ithat doesn't mean you can trade them if they aren't connected to the other nation.

Resources only have to be in your capital, and your capital connected to the other civ's capital, to trade.

You can not have some resources that are available only to some civs.

If it's in your capital, you can trade it to any civ to whom's capital you are connected.

[Balderdash]

Originally posted by krytonix
There's definitely some sort of bug here. I had 2 gold resources (none traded), and the AI offered a trade for it, but it said (1) in the trade window. About 10 seconds after the trade, another AI player offered to trade for the OTHER (my last) gold resource. I know i'm not crazy, this happened.

This may not be a bug. Did you actually verify in your City Manager screens that both tiles had citizens working on them?

I discovered this yesterday when trying to build a Pyramid. Boston (my second city) had the stone quarry (and road connecting it to both Boston and Washington), but when building the wonder in Washington, I wasn't getting the double production rate bonus.

I went to Boston's city menu and manually allocated a worker to the quarry tile, and after that, the "number of turns" for the pyramid in Washington instantly got cut in half.

So in summary, to utilize a resource, there seems to be three requirements:
[list=1][*]Build improvement;[*]Connect it to a road network; and[*]Make sure the tile is being utilized (via the City Manager screen). [This requirement seems to be missing in the manual.][/list=1]

Perhaps all three requirements apply to trading a resource as well. (I haven't tested this.)

[stormwriter]

Crap, well then what if my resource doesn't show up in the fat cross city window, but its well within my cultural boundaries?

I don't think that third requirement is right. We've all put a mine/quarry/etc and a long road to a resource, and as soon as it connected to the city, it was available to us.

[Balderdash]

Originally posted by stormwriter
I don't think that third requirement is right. We've all put a mine/quarry/etc and a long road to a resource, and as soon as it connected to the city, it was available to us.

This is defnitely true, at least it was for me. I'm just not sure if it applies to trading the resource.

To verify this for yourself, just start a new game (as an American leader [since that is the only civ I have played so far]) and then go to the World Builder screen/editor to place some stone and roads. Start building a pyramid (when you can), and then go the city screen to manually allocate which tiles get worked. Switching between the quarry tile and a non-quarry tile will instantly update your build turn completion number.

Yes, it will always show as "available" regardless if it's being worked or not, but you definitely do not gain any Wonder build time bonus if the tile is not being utilized by some citizen, i.e., there is no white circle around it.

[krytonix]

Wow, then can I trust the governor of a city to be utilizing the resources properly? If it's true, then it seems like bad implementation... what's the point, other than to require more micromanagement?

[Hurin]

I think Balderdash is mistaken in that a tile doesn't need to be worked for its resource to show up. I can point to several instances in my own experience where resources are available from unworked tiles (as they should according to the manual). Rather, I think his experience merely reflects how flakey resources currently are (perhaps his manipulating the tile "jerked" the game's attention/memory regarding that resource).

H

Edit: NM, just saw his clarification. Looks like the increased wonder times actually is affected by whether the resource tile is worked/unworked. My mistake.

[spa]

Might there be a difference here in the way the game treats strategic and luxury/health resources? The two have very different impacts so perhaps their is a bug for one that doesn't apply to the other.

[Balderdash]

Originally posted by Hurin
I think Balderdash is mistaken in that a tile doesn't need to be worked for its resource to show up. I can point to several instances in my own experience where resources are available from unworked tiles (as they should according to the manual). Rather, I think his experience merely reflects how flakey resources currently are (perhaps his manipulating the tile "jerked" the game's attention/memory regarding that resource).

H

Edit: NM, just saw his clarification. Looks like the increased wonder times actually is affected by whether the resource tile is worked/unworked. My mistake.

Well, I'm beginning to think that maybe what I have been seeing truly is some sort of bug.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in previous Civ games, to gain access to a resource outside a city's radius, one just needed to build a road to it. I assume this is still true in Civ4, and if so, it makes no sense that I have to work the tile to gain its bonuses--you can't work it if it's outside your city.

So getting back on topic, heh, yeah, the Python scripts that maintain and manage your resources are probably buggy.

As a testiment to this, just now I went and started a new game, and in the WorldBuilder, I updated two tiles (one in my city and one outside) with some stone and a quarry, added the roads, and finally gave myself both Mining and Quarry techs, yet still the game didn't register me having any stone resources. (And I know this DOES work because yesterday, I wanted to build railroads, but no one was mining any coal to trade with me, so I added my own coal/mine/road tile and viola, I was instantly able to build railroads after that point.)

[Aaron_Bevan]

This is how it has worked for me in all the games I have played so far (about 6 games)

1. Build required improvement to utilize the resource (ie. mine on gold) thus the resource must be in your cultural borders. If the resource is in your cities workable land you get nice bonuses from it but this is not required to gain the resource.

2. Connect it to your city via trade network(rivers, roads ect.) This gives it to the city that it is connected to and your empire if connected to your capital. Once connected to your capital and if you have a trade network to a foreign empire you can now trade it to them.

The Diplo trade screen is annoying when a comp offers a trade as you cannont immedialy see all your resources... or theirs. I always select the renegotiate option. At this point the current items are still selected but you also get to see your other resources.

*heres an important point*
When an item is selected i.e. the current trade it is removed from the above list of available items to trade. For example:
you have 2 gold and the comp initiates a trade for one of them, you click renegotiate and see that your current trade offer below lists Gold(1) and your available resources above list Gold(1). This means you have 2 gold and is not a bug.