Woe the Barbarian (Question)

[Foxhawk]

(Seinfeld) What's the deal... with barbarians?

As I've posted before, they exhibit rather whacky behavior in game. I've been playing direct ip games with a friend, and we've noticed two distinct oddities. Firstly, barbarian spawns seem- that is, this could be based on chance- to vary wildly between areas. Each of the times we've played with barbs, they've appeared very sparsely for one person, and overwhelmed the other. Last game, for instance, I only encountered a few barbarians, all while exploring. My friend, on the other hand, had barbarians swarming into his territory, six just around his capital, of last turn. I haven't even seen six total. That's a large number just to keep from destroying your improvements! Secondly, per his observations, barbarians either avoid AI civs or avoid their cities for other reasons. My friend- I haven't personally observed this behavior- has watched barbs cross a single square from AI towns; this decision may exist for a reason, but that's still very odd behavior from rampaging, fickle savages. Furthermore, barbs seem to tech up rather quickly; they have axemen even before I can secure iron, myself moving at a reasonable, skilled pace.

Anyhow, just my thoughts on barbs, we'll be playing with them off for a while now. They're much different than the SMAC indigenous creatures, or mindworms, which didn't tech up in a similar fashion and yielded energy when destroyed. Also, mindworm spawning was customizable beyond "none," "some," and "raging."

[Sartaq]

The AI has diplo with barbs, they are out for your blood!

I dunno but wacky, crazy, random barbs are what it's all about.

[LzPrst]

hmm, not sure if this matters at all, but do maybe aggressive civs get more barbs in the neighbourhood?

i've played romans once, half my civ was producing all out weaponry just to defend myself from the raging hordes that came from the northern wastelands.

in a mp my flatmate played the romans and had lots of barbs early on giving him a real hard time...

but I love the barbs. they're almost like minor civs now. once they took over one of my cities!!! and started out-culturing me!

barbs are cool. and they add an interesting element. you have to fight at least a little early on, depending on the map, alot...

[Foxhawk]

I liked the effort/reward spent attacking, say, mindworms moreso than barbs. With barbs I *have* to send a unit to protect my settlers, and I have to expend a lot of effort to keep my improvements from being destroyed, especially with time-based improvements like cottages.

Still, they wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for the oddities in spawning and AI behavior.

[Sartaq]

Personally I loved being attacked by them. They also show up at the funniest times too. My first game they appeared right when I was taking a rival civs city and they lowered their archers health for me a bit. Getting plenty of experiance for standing troops in peacetime is a good reward for me. As is taking a developed city from them.

If it turns out that they do have some kind of hack to search out players more often than AI that would be annoying, but nothing I have seen supports that for sure.

[Sir Og]

In my last game Barbs built the colosus
I think they are actually doing better than one of the 'real' civs.

[Saurus]

Barbarians building the colossus? ... right ... ...

That is very barbaric...

-S

[Robert]

I like hordes of barbarians!
They promote my units 8)

[Sir Og]

It certainly looks like the Colosus on the main screen. I have not captured the city yet so I cannot say for sure.

Saurus are you saying that barbs should not be able to build wonders?

[samsmithnz]

Originally posted by Sir Og
Saurus are you saying that barbs should not be able to build wonders?

By their very nature being barbarians, you are saying they are an uncivilized. I don't think that barbarian cities should be able to produce anything except war units - unless they suddenly become civilized and then I guess they could/should become a minor/new civilization...

[Proteus_MST]

Hm,
if I see Ghengis Khans "Golden Horde" as an example for Barbarians, I have to say that they can get very civilized.
After all they formed a great Civilization after some raiding and conquering (which is why they´re now a Civilization in Civ and not the Barbarians as which they can be seen before Ghengis Khan)

[samsmithnz]

I personally don't consider Ghengis Khans a barbarian, I think a better example is the German tribes that pillaged parts of the roman empire, and Vikings that pillaged Northern Europe. Both of these 'barbarians' came from small villages/ city states and weren't part of a country/ civilization.

[Proteus_MST]

Of course, you can take them as example, too.

But the Vikings and the german tribes also had their own religions and laws (and courts) and did a lot more than just producing war units, but instead cultivated the lands around their villages and made fine artistry.

So maybe the germans and vikings are instead an example why barbarians should really be the way they are now.
IMHO they shouldn´t be allowed to build wonders of the world, though, as this would require a coordination which could be only made by a great civilization.
But building normal buildings within the cities and cultivating the land around them? Well, your examples for "barbarians" in history did so.

[DeepO]

Could you please not continue a discussion in another thread, when you have made one yesterday, in which all your questions have been answered? If you continue posting in one spot, you don't lose sight of threads. Just spamming threads everywhere is not going to help you in the best possible way.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=140875

[Spocko]

I use the Barbs as fodder for giving my green units experience and promotions. Once a unit earns a promotion, I send a green one to replace him on the front lines, and pull the promoted unit back to defend a city. I tried turning off Barbs, but it made the game feel sterile.