Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Nukes suck in this game

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    Well, we all know that experiments were made to determine possibility to survive near nuclear explosions.
    On humans and on ships for example on sea.

    Depending on the strength of the weapon it can devastate more or less. I liked the approach of smac - mounting various reactors you could get radius of devastation from 1 tile to 4. That was a reason for not keeping your military stacked in bases. However, often players did not use nukes for roleplay purposes or simple calculation that it was not worth of lost commerce - other faction declared vendetta on you. And later there were orbital defense pods. There was though a window between orbital space flight - planet buster weapons - and the defense pods. You might use it for easy nuking. However planet busters are an expensive weapon. You usually get one or two fusin ones, and that is already like 1 or two secret projects (Wonders). Either you construct it for long time or use crawlers, it drains your resources, while peaceful opponent builds infrastructure. And even if you hit him with maybe 3 fusion busters, he anyway can be in better situation just having better economy still and many bases.
    There is a balance somewhere.

    If in Civ4 players tend to have less cities, then too powerful nukes might be destabilizing a game. I think though, that significant population loss with partial destroying of units is a good way to go. I think something like that no matter how many nukes in a turn you use, the city cannot loose some percentage of population or units. That way it would simulate reality, that some of buildings or units might survive even multiple nuclear hits. In Hiroshima and Nagasaki some people survived.
    Mart
    Map creation contest
    WPC SMAC(X) Democracy Game - Morganities aspire to dominate Planet

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Fried-Psitalon
      People are quick to decry nukes as weak, but think about if they were used on you. "Instant-win" devices are only fun when you're on the giving end of them. I doubt most players would enjoy it if two AIs signed an alliance and collectively smashed 9 of your cities, specifically targeting the ones with the largest standing military or production potential, and then swept in with units before you could possibly do anything to receoup the loss.

      It's a game - there needs to be a counter for everything, to some degree. You can lay waste by getting to nukes first and using them immediately; SDI is a later development, and the first person to Manhattan has a natural edge anyhow; bomb shelters take time to put up all over the globe. Like any other weapon, they have a window of opportunity. It's no fun to be the receipient of a "world against you" salvo of nuclear weapons.

      "God mode" is only fun for God.
      You say SDI is a later development but it isn't all to far off. Maybe only 1 or 2 techs away in my experience. Just like how cannons are obsolete because artillery is LITERALLY just one step away.

      Why would a person that built Manhattan project have a natural edge? That wonder allows ALL civilization that have the proper research to unlock ICBMs.

      You say bomb shelters take up time to build? Usually it only takes 2 turn or 4 for my not so productive cities. Heck I can rig up my whole nation to have bomb shelters before I can actually build a nuke.

      I understand that the past nukes were indeed overpowered. Heck I am glad that they are more balanced this time around. My problem is with SDI and bomb shelter. They are too strong. Make SDI only 25% or maybe even 50% if your not comfortable with it. Make bomb shelthers 50% effectiveness. When ARTILLERY deals more damage then a NUKE then I see some major problems.

      Comment


      • #63
        Well even if he did, come on, how are arrows going to destroy a tank?
        Since combat is largely abstract, we could just as easily speculate these archers are digging tank traps, or they catch the tanks refueling, or they're all unbottoned, or the commanding officer is killed whilst surveying the landscape, etc, etc.

        The bottomline is that these weird combat results are so rare, that I cannot even fathom why it bothers anyone. Nobody mentions the scores of units a single tank can kill, but the second an inferior unit defeats the tank the whole world comes to a screeching halt. By the same token, nobody seems to care when their unit defeats a technologically advanced enemy unit.
        Last edited by Volstag; November 3, 2005, 16:36.

        Comment


        • #64
          I amazes me how so many people are keen on nukes in this game. While they have the rare situational uses, they're, IMO, a waste of hammers. The same amount invested into actual units will yield much better long-term results. But... to each his own.

          Comment


          • #65
            On the longbowmen/spearmen damaging/killing tanks.

            In Iraq, the insurgency has taken out at least one tank and two bradley fighting vehicles by Improvised Explosive devices. Many more of the not so well armored Marine assault vehicles have been taken out by IEDs. That is pretty close to a spearman taking out a tank and maybe even Modern armor, if you ask me.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Killazer
              Rambo destroyed half the Russian army with a bow and a knife so its not impossible people.. ok.
              Yeah rambo taken out helicopter with bow, but his arrows had arrow-head with explosives.

              and bowman in civ4 have wooden arrows.

              Originally posted by Edmund Fogg
              On the longbowmen/spearmen damaging/killing tanks.

              In Iraq, the insurgency has taken out at least one tank and two bradley fighting vehicles by Improvised Explosive devices. Many more of the not so well armored Marine assault vehicles have been taken out by IEDs. That is pretty close to a spearman taking out a tank and maybe even Modern armor, if you ask me.
              You think they had any explosive devices in bronze age? They did not even know gunpawder yet...
              I dont see anything extroordinary in someone taking out tank with explosives.

              Comment


              • #67
                On the longbowman vs tank thing, I lost a tank in that fight yesterday. Full health tank, with either City Raider or Attack I. The archers were in a city that had been fully bombarded, so just their basic unit defense and fortification 25% for bonuses. And the bowmen won. They had 1.6(?) strength when the fight was over.

                To the people saying that "maybe they had explosives", the point is that longbowmen are from times pre-dating gunpowder. SO THEY DON'T HAVE EXPLOSIVES! Yes, in some bizarre extremes, it could happen, but a tank's two main weaknesses are the operators inside if they leave themselves vulnerable, and bad terrain. The operators aren't going to be outside the tank heading into battle, and I was attacking a bombarded city, not fighting on a mountain. (Longbowmen also took out a few of my gunships, but I *guess* this is a little more reasonable.)

                Comment


                • #68
                  two words: planet buster

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Azuarc
                    On the longbowman vs tank thing, I lost a tank in that fight yesterday. Full health tank, with either City Raider or Attack I. The archers were in a city that had been fully bombarded, so just their basic unit defense and fortification 25% for bonuses. And the bowmen won. They had 1.6(?) strength when the fight was over.

                    To the people saying that "maybe they had explosives", the point is that longbowmen are from times pre-dating gunpowder. SO THEY DON'T HAVE EXPLOSIVES! Yes, in some bizarre extremes, it could happen, but a tank's two main weaknesses are the operators inside if they leave themselves vulnerable, and bad terrain. The operators aren't going to be outside the tank heading into battle, and I was attacking a bombarded city, not fighting on a mountain. (Longbowmen also took out a few of my gunships, but I *guess* this is a little more reasonable.)
                    It would get rather dull if any unit had a "guaranteed" win over earlier units. Umh, conquer an a backward civ with one tank (send up a defensive unit to garrison each captured city).

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Rambo is a movie and in movies everything is possible

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Nukes aren't worth the effort in this game. they can stop an enemy invasion but they can't really insure the success of your invasion unless you have a lot of them. At that point it would have been more cost effective to just build front line units to begin with.
                        Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Fried-Psitalon
                          So you miss the C2 nuke which broke the game? I remember the days of one nuke + one Alpine trooper = city taken. How was that balanced? You found that fun? No questions asked, no problems had, get to nukes first and instantly, totally win?

                          Sorry, I play CIV for the fun and challenge of it - not because I want to be first to a tech and then automatically win the game.

                          And, uh, yes... I've played the game to the point where an opponent got SDI before.

                          Once or twice.
                          The better way was a helicopter not a alpine troop.

                          The Civ 2 way was very harsh on the defender though it was more realistic, if you have a large stash of nuclear missiles you really do have a huge advantage.
                          I've yet to get to nukes in 4 but they sound bad, worse then 3 even when I found them rather useless.

                          Bunkers...hmm... They should save something like 3/4 of the populaition rather then having half die. Though all buildings should still be destroyed. And all non-infantry units (or maybe reduce them to infantry?).

                          Having old style nukes would encourage realism- with people keeping armies out in bases rather then in cities.
                          Signatures are for people with free time

                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X