What's the "BEST" Video Card for Civ IV

[Ming]

I'm hopefully going "shopping" on Saturday... any other thoughts or suggestions?

[Qwertqwert]

You said you wanted to get a whole new computer right? If so be sure to figure out all the components you want. If you were just upgrading make sure the video card has the same slot as in your mobo.

[Aeson]

Originally posted by Ming
I'm hopefully going "shopping" on Saturday... any other thoughts or suggestions?

Since you're getting a whole new computer, definitely go with PCI-e over AGP. Will allow you much less expensive upgrading in the future, and shouldn't cost much more, if at all.

When "skimping" on the CPU, avoid a Sempron. Athlon 64's give better performance at roughly the same price. A Sempron 64 3400+ is outperformed by a Athlon 64 3000+, but should be close to the same price. Go with socket 939 for the CPU. More room to upgrade later if you want. (Another reason not to go with Sempron, as they are socket 745.) nForce4 chipset on the MB.

If you're sure you won't want more than 1GB RAM, get 2x512MB in dual channel. If you might want to upgrade your RAM later, go with a single 1GB stick, the performance drop from not running dual channel isn't enough to limit future (deemed possible) upgrades. Don't let them give you 4x256MB in any case!

[Bogie]

I, too, am trying to figure out which video card to buy. I have an older machine with an AGP slot and I am trying to upgrade as inexpensively as possible.

My difficulty stems from quotes such as these:

Originally posted by Civfreak1970
My ATI 256M 9550 runs great with it!

Originally posted by DJ
It's very slow when run on my laptop (ATI Radeon 9600, 2.8Ghz, 512 MB DDR), unplayable actually.

The 9600 has a clock rate that is 50% faster than the 9550. While the 9600 user does not state how much memory his board has, I am assuming that he meets the minimum or recommended requirements of 64/128mb. Yet, one is unplayable and the other is great? Go figure.

There are lots of examples like this on these and other forums. The $40 FX5200 seems to be popular. One person says it works great on the lowest settings, while someone else will state that it lags and plays choppy.

All in all, it has been a very frustrating experince for me. After reading some of these posts, I am left wondering if the recommended requirements for this game are realistic.

[Aeson]

There is a huge performance range between all the various 128MB cards, as the VPU is important too. So the "recommended" is rather vague. I don't like how game companies choose "minimum" and "recommended" when in reality they are "it will play badly" and "you'll wish you had a better computer, but it's playable" respectively.

The 9600 and 9550 are very close in performance. But other things in the system also factor in. Both cards should be able to play the game ok without AA, and probably require setting things lower to be fluid.

The amount of RAM is going to be very big. 512MB just isn't enough for larger maps. Here's Civfreak1970 saying he has 1GB RAM, which is definitely going to make a difference over 512MB.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=4102922#post4102922

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Ming
Hmmm...
It seems like 1 GB of ram and the 6600 GT is the way to go.

PCI Express indeed ... also AMD64 if you can get it, and make sure the motherboard is decent. Asus, Abit, Gigabyte, a few others are 'decent' motherboard makers...

[Bogie]

Thanks, Aeson, for the reply! Very informative post. A couple of followup questions, if you don't mind ...

Originally posted by Aeson
I don't like how game companies choose "minimum" and "recommended" when in reality they are "it will play badly" and "you'll wish you had a better computer, but it's playable" respectively.

What, then, are the "actual" requirements?

Originally posted by Aeson
The 9600 and 9550 are very close in performance. But other things in the system also factor in. Both cards should be able to play the game ok without AA, and probably require setting things lower to be fluid.

Not sure what "AA" is (well, in the game world, anyway). I read in a post somewhere (don't recall where, at the moment) that the 9550/9600/9600Pro were "mainstream" cards that "should provide decent" performance. I guess that is only true if the game is run at the lowest graphic settings?

Originally posted by Aeson
The amount of RAM is going to be very big. 512MB just isn't enough for larger maps.

Wonderful news! And here I thought I only had a video card problem. Well, what size map can I get for my 512Mb of "recommended" memory?

Once again, thanks for your help. Your insights are most appreciated!

[Fidel]

Originally posted by Aeson


Since you're getting a whole new computer, definitely go with PCI-e over AGP. Will allow you much less expensive upgrading in the future, and shouldn't cost much more, if at all.

actually, i reckon that pci-e graphic cards are starting to get cheaper than AGP. i remember i read somewhere that it is because they need not build in some converter etc bla bla.

also, need not splash on a motherboard. buy the cheapest 939 socket brand name mb (ca 120 usd or something), nvidia4 and it will do the job just as fine as those top-of-the-line thingies
dual core, SLI and other stuff - you need not bother with that, ming.

[Fidel]

dp

[Aeson]

Originally posted by Bogie
What, then, are the "actual" requirements?

I guess it depends on what you want. If you want smooth gameplay at or near the highest settings, something along the lines recommended to Ming in this thread. 6600GT, X800GT, or 6800. That's what I'd personally call "recommended".

I've played on a 400MX (black terrain), Radeon 8500 SE 64MB, Radeon 9200 128MB, each with 512MB RAM. The MX is not what I'd call playable. The other two were, but slow. I'd call those cards and 512MB minimum. You can play it on slower cards, or with less memory... but it might be frustratingly slow.

(The 8500 is actually almost identical in performance to the 9200... a good example of why a VRAM requirement isn't that valuable a measuring stick, and neither is simply going by numbering systems.)

For the CPU, I really can't tell any difference between having my Athlon XP 2400+ at stock, OC'd to 3200+, or underclocked to 2000+. (Other than the temps!) So just about any recent CPU is going to work for CIV.

Not sure what "AA" is (well, in the game world, anyway). I read in a post somewhere (don't recall where, at the moment) that the 9550/9600/9600Pro were "mainstream" cards that "should provide decent" performance. I guess that is only true if the game is run at the lowest graphic settings?

AA is anti-aliasing. Gets rid of the jagged lines basically. Until recently it's been a high-end card luxury in most games, so probably won't miss it.

I don't think you'd have to go to lowest settings to have pretty smooth gameplay with the 9550/9600/9600Pro. 9600PRO is a better card than the other two. All 3 are quite a bit better than the 8500 or 9200 I was using.

Wonderful news! And here I thought I only had a video card problem. Well, what size map can I get for my 512Mb of "recommended" memory?

The main difference I noticed when dropping back to 512MB was several times longer waits when loading a map or zooming all the way out on larger maps, and increased jerkiness when scrolling across them. 512MB is still playable even on Huge maps, just slow to move the view around much.

I'd say get the video card, make sure to shut down all unnecessary apps when playing (and defrag the HD after installing), and if you notice too much slowness, enough to make you think the $40 for another 512MB is worth it, then get the RAM.

[Aeson]

Originally posted by LaRusso
actually, i reckon that pci-e graphic cards are starting to get cheaper than AGP. i remember i read somewhere that it is because they need not build in some converter etc bla bla.

The 6600GTs look like they are around the same price right now. When I bought mine in January the AGP ones were about $30 more than the PCI-e ones because of the bridge chip.

[Fidel]

Originally posted by Aeson


The 6600GTs look like they are around the same price right now. When I bought mine in January the AGP ones were about $30 more than the PCI-e ones because of the bridge chip.

yeah, that is the thing, bridge chip...i admit my total ignorance.

[Qwertqwert]

How did your shopping go Ming?

[snoopy369]

Ming, what did you end up getting

[notyoueither]

He's too busy playing CIV and trying to figure out how to ban Alexander.