Terra Maps... Extremely Strategic

[okblacke]

[SIZE=1] Consider this: pick random maps, and compare the situation when you find out your playing a terra map. My guess is that there is a big chance you might arrive in the new world, finding it completely settled already

Do you have a random option on your game of civ?

I don't, and I really miss it. It was one of the primary features I used to sharpen my Civ 3 game.

[cal_01]

Originally posted by Quillan
I've played a lot of terra map games so far, and I've found it's much better to conquer the new world rather than to settle it. You guys are right, the AI doesn't handle it very well. Build galleys before you've developed Optics. Send out caravels with explorers once you can, and build troops for an invasion. As soon as you get Astronomy, upgrade the galleys to galleons, load them with the troops, and send them over. The explorers should have found the spots for you to hit. Land, take a city from the barbarians (preferably a coastal one so you've got a trade connection), refit, and proceed on. The city will spend several turns in resistance, but when that's over, you'll have a city that is much larger and more productive than one you'd build yourself. Plus, all the extra troops you send over on the invasion force will have a much easier time dealing with the incoming batch of barbarian troops than the escorts to a bunch of settlers.

From my experience, the barbarians will swarm you once you take the city. Be sure to get a lot of extra troops!

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Jaybe

Wooooh figure that one out

They imported it from South America, you silly.
j/k

I don't know when it became popular to grown in Afghanistan.

The Afghans grow opium not cocaine.

[DeepO]

Originally posted by okblacke


Do you have a random option on your game of civ?

I don't, and I really miss it. It was one of the primary features I used to sharpen my Civ 3 game.

You can have it: use the advanced setting, pick a continents map, and go for random map type (one of the options, not sure how it's called exactly)

This will set up a game similar to a random map in Civ3. It won't give you terra maps, nor the new archepelago maps.

DeepO

[Glostakarov]

Most of the dropdowns on the custom game screen have a random option (and on the Play Now option too I think).

On the subject of AI, I wouldn't have a problem with the AI adjusting its strategy according to the type of map on a non-random type. If we know going in what sort of map we're playing, the AI should too or we gain a strong advantage that makes the difficulty selection less accurate. If I pick Monarch difficulty I don't want Noble difficulty, but the strategic disadvantage of the AI essentially steps down the difficulty. Now that I know I can play more difficult settings to compensate, but then it feels cheap if I say I won on a certain difficulty where the AI wasn't playing to the level.

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Glostakarov
Most of the dropdowns on the custom game screen have a random option (and on the Play Now option too I think).

Yeah, but only the continent map is so general that you can have both Pangaea and (Civ 3 type) Archipelago's. all the others will stay within one type of map

On the subject of AI, I wouldn't have a problem with the AI adjusting its strategy according to the type of map on a non-random type. If we know going in what sort of map we're playing, the AI should too or we gain a strong advantage that makes the difficulty selection less accurate. If I pick Monarch difficulty I don't want Noble difficulty, but the strategic disadvantage of the AI essentially steps down the difficulty. Now that I know I can play more difficult settings to compensate, but then it feels cheap if I say I won on a certain difficulty where the AI wasn't playing to the level.

The main problem is, that is is hard to code such a high-level AI taking into account global information before even starting the game. Some things like a 'watery world' parameter on a map might lead to increased ship-priority for AIs, but these little things are hard to find, and even more hard to balance.

DeepO

[Dis]

Re: Terra Maps... Extremely Strategic

Originally posted by Metaliturtle
Seriously, if you play this map you need to work your tail off getting a city on a coastline, and research beeline to Compass, (maybe divert long enough to grab a religion)

The second continent has a monopoly of important resources. (my game had all of the marble)

The sooner you get over there the better, if you play your cards right, the AI will trade for those resources big time, providing a good boost to you.

A good idea is to cultivate one of the stronger AIs as an ally and find a weaker one to slaughter. (in my game it was rome because all the iron happened to be on the other continent as well)

I really enjoy the colonization aspects this map leads to as well. The only thing is that you don't have to do the lone settlers vs. wilderness thing like real life because the Barbs set up a spectacular infrastructure for you to just come in and "inheret." So if you want, just make a knight and a crossbowman and put them ashore, once you've got a foothold you don't have to do much else.

Ha!

It took more than a knight and crossbowmen. I had a very difficult time taking their cities. The AI couldn't even attempt to take their cities.

[Metaliturtle]

edit: As I play on harder difficulty levels, more knights and crossbowmen are needed...

[Volstag]

Originally posted by V3nom
out of curiosty, how well does the AI handle this type of map? Do they realise that there is another continent and try and rush there right out of the gates as well or do they just act as they normally would and allow you to beeline through and grab it without much competition?

Obviously, the AI has no idea that there's an unexplored continent out in the middle of the ocean. As a result, they're not exactly racing towards Calendar. However, once they do gain knowledge of this undiscovered continent (via map trades), they're generally pretty good about getting boats and settlers to the location. The major mistake they make, IMO, is settling new cities as opposed to crushing the barb cities that already exist. More broadly, they just don't bring enough military precense. In a few games, I believe the AI beat me to the continent, but I believe their cities were eventually overwhelmed by the barbarian forces.

In short, they do a decent job of getting to the continent, but they aren't able to take advantage of it like the human player. In every terra game I've played, the virgin continent becomes largely dominated by myself.

[Volstag]

Originally posted by joncnunn
Wow, that's unhistoric. The only civ series resource that I'm aware of the new world having and the old world not is Tobacco.

Good point. I would also like to add that the vast majority of the civs in Civ IV didn't exist in 4000 B.C. -- so let's get rid of them as well. Let's also remove all non-earth maps, since they don't exist either. In fact, let's just change the entire game so it's nothing more than a rudimentary replay of history w/ no player interaction whatsoever.

Or... we could just accept the fact that it's a game, and not a history book.

[Dis]

Originally posted by joncnunn
Wow, that's unhistoric. The only civ series resource that I'm aware of the new world having and the old world not is Tobacco.

In fact, the new world didn't have horses.

read the designer's note at the end of the manual. This is a what-if game.

[Quillan]

Oh yes, it takes more than a knight and a crossbowman. In fact, I usually send over 4 galleons full of troops: 4 catapults, 4 knights, and 4 crossbowmen. That will take the first city in the course of just a few turns. The troops you send will have to vary depending on the tech level at the time you discover Astronomy. You want to send the best stuff you can. And I don't know that I'd characterize the response as being swarmed. It's more of an uncoordinated rush. They just send troops. The knights and excess troops can kill them as they arrive. Usually they'll keep the city safe, at least until the galleons can make the round trip for more.

[khumak]

Originally posted by DeepO
Ah, but you're making an assumption here: You know you picked this specific map type, the AI didn't know it. So of course it doesn't change it's tactics, while you beeline for exactly that tech that you need.

A good way to fix this would be to just let the AI know what map type is being played for any game where the player picked anything other than "random" for the map type. Anything similar to terra, continents, or island maps and the AI should give exploration a higher than normal focus. For maps like Pangea the AI should give very little weight to sea based exploration.

[Dis]

it's the same thing as the human having the advantage on earth maps. They already know how the continents are shaped. The same here. The human knows there is a continent off the coast a ways.

[Blake]

My latest terra game (on Monarch) has been good fun.

Started off on a nasty little piece of land, the only saving grace was stone. I crammed in 4 cities (basically using cxxc spacing). Anyway, I did get the Pyramids and the Great Lighthouse (thanks stone) which fueled my economic engine and thus I got to Astronomy first by a large margin.

Alas. No copper. No iron. No horses. No Elephants. But anyway, the moment i hit Astronomy I upgraded the waiting galley and sent the now Galleon to the New Land (already scouted by Caravel, the explorer died immediately to a swordsman, alas).

There I founded an outpost, on the bottom corner of "America", on a hill, next to an Iron (yum!). Hauled over more longbowmen and catapults, and once I had a decent army of them, took a couple of barb cities (taking cities with longbows is weird...) At one point a Barb horseman fired up the hacks and killed the lone City Garrison Longbowman in my Hill City, but I got it back before the Barbs garrisoned it with anything more dangerous than the ninja pirate horseman.

Anyway, now I have iron and copper and corn and silk and sugar and clams and PIKEMEN to keep the ninja pirate horsemen at bay.

The AI still hasn't researched Astronomy. They got up to Optics no problem. Now they are satisifed to call me up every so often and demand Astronomy from me. They've researched around it but they are avoiding it like the plauge. I've seen their caravels lurking around my New World cities so they aren't ignorant of the New World expansion oppurtunity, they're just plain stupid. They are having fun declaring war left right and center though. So far they've ignored me, possibly because of my fairly large city garrisons of longbows xbows and catapults, combined with my lack of a state religion. None of them LIKE me, but none of them hate me enough to bother fighting me.